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Michael: What you’re doing with your sales training is an information products business. Now, you’re bringing these people every week to your training, right?

Carlin: Right.

Michael: Here’s one small thing you can do. You hire someone with a video camera and videotape your training. Then after a year, you’ll have 52 videotapes of your training. You’ve got an information product that you could sell to all those people who don’t want to show up to these classes on video.

Carlin: Right.

Michael: And you can sell it on a website, you can sell it through direct mail, you can sell it anyway you want. You could also take the audio from the video and have it on audiotapes. Then you could take the transcripts of every one of those audiotapes in your training and have your written material. Now you can sell it to anybody, anywhere in the world, and you’re not limited by your geographical area of your franchise.

[Music]

Michael: Here’s a recording with Carlin. Carlin called me looking for some pre-owned Jay Abraham material. He is part owner of a sales training franchise here in the United States. Carlin is in front of potential prospects for sales training all day for small and medium sized businesses and he wanted to learn some marketing skills from Jay Abraham so he contacted me looking for some pre-owned marketing materials. In this conversation, we talk about where he’s at in his business, why he wants to offer something different than the one-time sales training. We give him ideas on how to create his existing sales training products into resalable information products like videos and audiotapes. It’s a nice example of how to sell someone some marketing consulting materials because it results in a nice sale. You’ll hear it from start to finish. The call is about 28 minutes long and I’m sure there’s some information you’ll benefit from. Enjoy!

Michael: So, tell me what’s going on.

Carlin: I was introduced to Jay Abraham, the power talk …

Michael: Through Anthony Robbins?

Carlin: From Anthony Robbins, correct. And that led me to want to look into furthering my education with reference to marketing. So, I got on Jay Abraham’s website and I called. They gave me what they feel is the best pathway, if you will, in reference to maybe becoming a protégé on what he teaches. So they gave me, you know, the first thing you do is buy this book and you listen to these tapes, and then you read this book and you listen to these tapes and you listen to these tapes, basically. And then go to these seminars. Basically that’s what they kind of laid out for me. I got your website from a friend of me. He told me to check it out because you can get discounted tapes and materials. So, I went to your website and that’s kind of where we’re at. I do want to tell you this. I am just now starting … I’ve been going through a professional development program called “Selling Solutions.” It’s a franchise that Sandler sells.

Michael: I’ve heard of Sandler.

Carlin: I’ve been doing that for about four years and he’s asked me to become a partner with him. So, right now I’m in outside sales, selling technology products—software and hardware to manufacturing companies. I’m leaving that arena and I’m going to go into business with this other individual who’s doing business development. He’s really only focusing on sales training. What I want to be able to do is offer my clients another column of value added service and that’s in reference to helping them with marketing.

Michael: Oh, yeah. That would be great. So, you’re definitely going to do this?

Carlin: Oh, yeah. It’s done.

Michael: It’s done. What’s the franchise called?

Carlin: It’s called “Selling Solutions.”

Michael: Right. So, you’re now part owner of a “Selling Solutions” franchise.

Carlin: Right. Well, I’ve got to tell you this also just in case it changes anything. What’s I’m doing is tomorrow, I’m incorporating my own business and he’s going to actually … instead of me being an employee of “Selling Solutions,” he’s just going to pay my corporation.

Michael: Okay

Carlin: But, it’s kind of a type of a partnership program anyway, what we worked out.

Michael: Fine. And you feel good about working with this partner?

Carlin: Oh, absolutely.

Michael: You trust him and everything.

Carlin: Oh, big time.

Michael: That sounds exciting. So, have done any of the selling of the training yet?

Carlin: The only thing I’ve done is helped him bring in a few companies. There’s probably five companies that I’ve helped him bring in just from my referrals that I would give him and then he’d follow up on. I’d be like his inside sales champion to help him close the order.

Michael: What kind of money is in selling that?

Carlin: Are you asking in reference to annual income or actual …

Michael: No, just like when you get an account. What do you make on an account? How is it structured? Is everything different or …?

Carlin: No, I mean when you say what do make as far as gross profit, I can tell you a typical sale will be … what you do is your clientele is small and medium sized businesses and you literally go after talking to the President—that’s who want to get in front of. Normally he will typically have two or more sales people and the training is about 10 grand per salesperson. We also offer assessments of your current sales people and offer a service to where if somebody is trying to hire a new sales person that they take this assessment test to determine if they’re a good hire for you.

Michael: So, the owner is going to pay ten grand per salesperson who goes through the training.

Carlin: That is correct.

Michael: And how long is the training?

Carlin: It’s a year long.

Michael: Do they train out of their home office or do they go somewhere for the training?

Carlin: If we do a customized training in their office, it is a little bit more than that. The ten grand is for them to come to our training center and spend two hours a week at that training center for a period of one year.

Michael: Two hours a week they have to come to your training center.

Carlin: Right.

Michael: All right that sounds pretty good. And who’s doing the training, you and your partner?

Carlin: Right.

Michael: So, you’re doing the training weekly. How many days a week are you doing training?

Carlin: Two … I think he just started three days a week, as a matter of fact because there’s really two parts to the program. There’s a quick start, which is a 12 week program that you could sell as what I would call a monkey’s paw. If somebody didn’t want to commit to the entire program, you could sell the lecture program—the getting started program, if you will. That’s the 12-week. But then after that you graduate—if you pass that—you graduate into what they call the “President’s Club,” which then lasts you for the rest of the year.

Michael: How much is the 12 week one?

Carlin: Six grand.

Michael: $6,000.

Carlin: Yes, that’s a lot, but …

Michael: Let me ask this. The franchise … how limited are you as far as your marketing and stuff? Does the franchise control everything you do? Do you have to get everything approved by them?

Carlin: That’s a really good question. I think if you’re going to use Sandler and anywhere in it are you going to draw a picture of any aspect of the Sandler franchise, you do need to work through them, I think, but I’m not positive. That’s a very good question. I’m just assuming that it would be like that.

Michael: But are you all operating under the name Sandler or your name?

Carlin: “Selling Solutions.”

Michael: “Selling Solutions,” but it is a Sandler franchise?

Carlin: That’s correct.

Michael: Do you pay a royalty to Sandler?

Carlin: Yes.

Michael: Do you pay a monthly franchise fee?

Carlin: Yes.

Michael: Can I ask how much that is?

Carlin: I’d have to look that up, Michael. I’m not sure. It isn’t a lot.

Michael: It isn’t a lot. And what kind of percentage do you have to pay Jim every month?

Carlin: I think it’s only $300 a month.

Michael: Insignificant.

Carlin: It’s like 50 grand for the franchise fee and then they make money off of all the materials and things like that. It’s pretty insignificant.

Michael: And they provide all the sales and training materials?

Carlin: Correct.

Michael: And you guys just follow their curriculum?

Carlin: Right. And there’s also really two partners in the business. There’s one called Sandler and there’s another called Objective Management. That’s the one with all the web-based sales assessment. What they do is they match up a company, let’s say, the owner of a business and we ask the owner of the business to go to this website and answer these questions. What he’s doing is creating a profile of his business and the ideal salesperson. He creates an ideal sales person. And then when he gets a potential hire, he will ask this potential hire to go to the website and take this assessment test.

Michael: It’s like a personality-type profile.

Carlin: Kind of. Right. Yes. It asks basic sales questions to see where his strengths and weaknesses are and then he gets this detailed report showing strengths and weaknesses, and it flat out says whether he is a good hire or not.

Michael: This is a product that you can sell, correct?

Carlin: Correct.

Michael: And what do you all sell that for—per person?

Carlin: That right there is $250 to take the test, and I think $500—you can tell I haven’t started yet …

Michael: That’s okay, ballpark …

Carlin: Five hundred dollars for the owner to go online and create his profile.

Michael: I’ve got you. That’s a nice backend.

Carlin: Right.

Michael: So, what did Abraham recommend you guys study?

Carlin: The path that they gave me was first read the, Getting Everything You Can book, which I’ve done that. Then they asked me to look into getting a set of tapes on How To Get From Where You Are To Where You Want To Be. Are you familiar with that?

Michael: Sure.

Carlin: Then there’s, I think, a book or a set of tapes or something called, Mr. X.

Michael: Yes.

Carlin: Then Marketing Edge – Volume 1, and then Mastermind of Marketing.

Michael: And then Mastermind of Marketing. Those are all great products and it’s a good recommendation. It will teach you how to think like Jay Abraham. There’s no doubt. I don’t know if you need all of it at once. How do you like to learn? Are you a reader, or an audio person, or what?

Carlin: Probably audio more than read.

Michael: Do you have a tape player in your car?

Carlin: Yes. I have a CD and a tape player in my car.

Michael: Now, is your partner interested in learning this, too, or just more you?

Carlin: He’s interested, but it’s definitely me driving it. Big time me. And that’s another reason why I kind of set up my own corporation. So, if he feels like this isn’t something that he wants to do, that’s okay with me. I will still do it.

Michael: You know, does Sandler have a problem with you—this may be something you want to just check into just for your own sake—is Sandler or the franchise going to restrict you from doing anything with your customers that you generate through their system? Do you have any idea?

Carlin: I don’t think so. I can tell you that the “Objective Management” is not part of Sandler and I don’t see any restrictions with that.

Michael: Okay.

Carlin: But maybe can I get you to elaborate a little on what you mean by restrict?

Michael: I was wondering … you know, you really ought to read the small print in all these franchise agreements. You got to get that original franchise agreement and just find out if there is anything in there restricting you from doing anything with a client that you generate through the Sandler System. Just to cover your butt. You just want to make sure.

Carlin: That’s very good advice. Thank you.

Michael: And, I think your idea is great because if you’re out there generating clients, sales training is definitely important. You can make some nice money on that and the personality profiling and the matching. I think that’s a good backend offer. But your smart in learning and trying to study and understand marketing because once you’ve got these business owners and you’ve got them committing to sales training … once you understand this marketing stuff, you’ll be able to see hidden opportunities in their business that they have no idea exist, that can make you 10, 20, 30 times what you’re going to make off the training.

Carlin: That’s exactly what I was thinking. When I was listening to the CD or the tape, that’s exactly what I was thinking. I was like, man, the biggest problem with the Sandler model—the Sandler franchise model—is the backend is extremely weak. With the marketing here, if we could—once I get good, not if—once I get to where I want to be in the marketing, the backend is just phenomenal.

Michael: Yes, endless.

Carlin: I’m loving it.

Michael: You do one or two of these deals, you’ll probably not even going to want to screw with the Sandler thing. And then you’ll have your own corporation set up and you’ll probably turn into just—you could be a marketing consultant firm and sales training. It doesn’t matter. You could offer both.

Carlin: Right. I mean I like the sales training. I mean it’s nice. You get to work with people’s beliefs and attitudes and work with them on an annual basis, and help them achieve their goals professionally and personally. You get a little bit of life coaching in there with it. I’ve got to figure out how to charge for that. I get a lot of fulfillment out of that, I do.

Michael: I can start you off slow. You don’t need to get all that stuff at once. You said you’ve read the book. I think I’ve got maybe even some better recommendations for audiotapes to start out with. Do you have any idea what kind of investment you’re looking at that you want to put into some educational materials to start? Do you want to start off slow, $300, $400, $500 … you’ve got $1000? If I could put together a very complete package for $1000 worth of materials, you’re going to save tons off of what you’re going to pay from Jay Abraham.

Carlin: No problem at all.

Michael: If you want me to put together a package for $1000, I’ll put a package so complete you’ll never have to buy another piece of information on Jay Abraham marketing. You’ll have an encyclopedia of ideas—written, and audio and video.

Carlin: Great. That would be awesome. Let me ask you another question—just thinking off the top of my head here. What if I’m in front of these clients, I’m green … you know, I’ve listened to these tapes and stuff, but I’m green … because it really take experience. Is there anything that you can do—that you and I can work out—in reference to saying, you know, let me get this client to fill out this questionnaire, if you will, on how to go about business, send it up to you, and for some fee you look at, and you and I get on the phone and you say okay, Carlin, tell me what you think. And then you and I bounce things off … and obviously you need to get paid for all this.

Michael: I don’t mind that but do you know what? You’re going to be able to do it all yourself. I promise you. I’m going to give you … in this package I’ve go two different products, which will give you every single question that you need to ask. All you’ve got to do is take these questions—this series of questions—which are the same questions that Jay Abraham would ask a potential client, and you’re going to have the client do all the work. I’m going to also provide you with some audio content that will blow you away. These are some interviews that I’ve done with marketing consultants. I’ve got one in particular that will just … you will be drooling after you hear it, I promise you because you’re going to see how to be a marketing consultant. I’ve got an hour and a half conversation with a gentleman named Martin Howie. A little later I’ll hook you up with that. I’ll put you in touch with the exact information you need. The step by step how to do it. So, there’s two different things I’ll put in your package, which give you a detailed questionnaire that you’ll have the client fill out on their time. It’s a process where you aren’t going to be wasting your time in front of these clients. If the client wants to improve his marketing, he’s got to be doing all the work and I’m going to show you in this audio recording that will show you exactly how to qualify and have them qualify themselves step by step in doing this. So, once you see the answers to the questions that they fill out on their time, you’re going to know if it’s what we call a set up. A set up is a business you want to work with. The bottom line is you want to work with businesses that have a lot of customers, that have good will with their customers, and that have poor advertising and marketing. So, where you can step in and be able to see what they’re doing wrong and just change a couple little things that they’re not doing that are almost effortless on your part, but once you get an agreement with them that you’re going to improve their sales or whatever through some of your marketing consulting, then you just make those little tiny changes which could mean the world to their business and to your commissions for doing that for them.

Carlin: Heck, yeah.

Michael: You’re not going to be building companies; you’re not going to be working with start-ups. You only want to look for companies that have customers that are generating sales, that have ongoing marketing—but you can identify some small things that they’re doing wrong or not doing at all that can make a big difference. You know what I’m saying? And I’ll have that questionnaire for you within the package that you can provide to them that will let them fill it out so you can identify if this is a business you want to work with.

Carlin: Okay.

Michael: Also, if you come to me and say “Mike, here’s an interesting situation. We just sold some sales training to these guys. They’ve got “x” number of customers.” I’d be glad … you’ve become my client. I’m here. You can call me. I’ll talk to you over the phone. I’ll give you my two cents worth and what I think about it. I’ll do that for free. Just tell me what’s going on and I’ll give you my advice.

Carlin: I’m like a self-improvement junkie from Tony Robbins to you name it, so I’m sure there’s a lot of stuff, not just in marketing, that you can show me … lead my way.

Michael: I’m the same way. I love Zig Ziglar, The Secrets of Closing the Sale; and Brian Tracy and all that stuff.

Carlin: I’m into everything. I get up and run everyday. I have my CD player strapped to my waist as I go and listen to the whole CD . . .

Michael: Well, let me tell you. This is the best stuff going. When I was starting, I thought sales was knowing how to sell, knowing how to be a professional salesman was where the power was. I didn’t really know marketing. I had never been exposed to it. But once I saw marketing, you understand that your selling skill is very vital—it’s the most important thing. But once you understand marketing, that takes those selling skills and all that stuff you’ve learned how to sell, and how to be a good salesman, and how to close the sale, and how to establish rapport, and all that, it shows you how to geometrically just multiply yourself. You see, sales is the most important thing. You’ve got be a good salesman. And if you can do that yourself in selling whatever product or service you have, now that you have the marketing, marketing is going to show you how to take that sale and leverage yourself and be able to duplicate yourself. That’s all marketing is. It’s getting your sale message—which you need that skill—multiplied out to as many people as possible with the least amount of effort for the lowest amount of cost. And that’s whether you’re selling a product, a service, an idea, or whatever. That’s the most powerful stuff. That’s why I’ve just focused and stayed with this marketing because there’s so much power with it compared to sales or NLP and all that stuff, you know.

Carlin: Yeah, I’m definitely turned on by it believe me. Big time. Big time turned on by … energized and ready to learn. Ready to do whatever I’ve got to do. I’m at the point of saying “Hey, you know of a good seminar or something that … put that in there. Carlin, you know, here, go through the material, and then I highly recommend you do this. There’s a seminar in Denver. It costs two grand, go to it.”

Michael: Any idea is worth something, once you understand your time is so valuable. How old are you now?

Carlin: 37.

Michael: Are you married, Carlin?

Carlin: Yes.

Michael: You got kids?

Carlin: No kids, but she’s … that time clock’s ticking. You know what I mean?

Michael: You’ll see. Once you have kids, you’re going to realize how valuable your time is and you’re not going to be wanting to be schlepping to seminars across the country, or flying, and sitting in hotel rooms in uncomfortable chairs. You know you’re going to want to just study on your own time.

Carlin: I’ve got one more thing to ask you. You might want to include some information on this if it’s not already in there. Another idea I have of creating a website—something that I’ve been really good with in doing for a lot of years that … especially my wife, but most of my friends also, who actually did bring in people to me, I’ve been doing it for free. I’ve been consulting people on how to interview. How to get the right mind set. I’ve been really working with people—not the people that are making the six figures because they pretty well already know it—but the people going in for the $40,000 jobs that have never been taught. They’re not the type that listens to motivational tapes every day. Do you know what I’m saying? It’s helping them to interview the company that’s interviewing them. Let’s say my wife has a friend, and she has an opportunity for a job …

Michael: You teach her how to interview when she goes on an interview.

Carlin: Exactly.

Michael: Okay.

Carlin: And I’ve got a knack for doing that. I’m like, you know, I should figure out how to do a website and capitalize on that.

Michael: Well, what you’re going to learn and what I teach a lot on my website and to my students, is how to take your talents—like your knack for interviewing—and how to create an information product that you can sell. You see; Jay Abraham’s marketing is nothing but information product. They are written information products, they’re information products on video, they’re information products on audio, and they’re information products packaged in all different ways. But it’s all information; you’re just getting it different in different methods. Some people are more privy to reading, some like audio, some people like video, because everyone’s different, right? So that’s what he’s doing. He’s in the information products business. I teach people in what you’re talking about right now and what you’re doing right now with your sales training is an information products business. You’re bringing these people every week to your training, right? Here’s one small thing you can do. You hire someone, or get somebody in there with a video camera and videotape your training. Then after a year, you’ll have 52 videotapes of your training. Now, if you’re allowed to do this with Sandler, you’ve got an information product that you could sell to all those people who don’t want to show up to these classes on video.

Carlin: Right.

Michael: And you can sell it on a website, you can sell it through direct mail, you can sell it anyway you want. You could also take the audio from the video and have it on audiotapes. Then you could take the transcripts of every one of those audiotapes in your training and have your written material. Just like Jay Abraham has because it’s no different now. Now, you can sell it to anybody, anywhere in the world, and you’re not limited by your geographical area of your franchise.

Carlin: That’s a very good point. I do remember thinking to myself when Jay Abraham actually said on the tape that he’d tape his sessions with clients and then put it on his website. He actually said that.

Michael: Well, I’m recording you and this is going to become a product somewhere down the road. I’m capturing it forever. OK? If I choose to put this up on my website, if someone calls me down the road looking for advice on how to be a consultant, I can point them to this. I’ve already spent the time on the phone with you, but I won’t ever have to do it again because I can direct them to our audio recording that lives on forever. And I’ll take the audio recording, and I’ll send it to my typist, and I’ll have it transcribed, and then there’s downloadable transcripts. Now, I can take all my audio recordings where I’ve talked about joint venture—yours and the one with Martin Howie that I’m going to send you soon—and the one with Bianca on joint venturing and the other thee or four, and now I have a tape set on joint ventures. You see just mixing and matching and creating product. You’re the boss. You use your creativity and no matter what you do in your business, you should be capturing it on tape or on video. And then you have just taken away your geographical restrictions of the franchise because you can sell now anywhere in the world. You just box them up. And what does it cost you to put it on audiotape—a dollar—for a video, $1.50? It’s information, you know. People don’t have to schlep to the class every week. That’s . . . you know when I hear that, that’s a big turnoff. Who’s got time? Fifty—that’s like 52 weeks out of the year they’ve got to go to class. That’s just painful. That’s like going to school again.

Michael: I’m sure most people don’t make it through the whole year.

Carlin: Oh, no.

Michael: They drop out, don’t they?

Carlin: Oh, yeah.

Michael: So make it easy on them. Say “Look, if you’ve got a family and you’re busy and you’re working nights, and you can’t make it”, you could say, “If you don’t make it one week … “ as part of the service you can offer the videotape of the training for an extra fee. That can be an up-sell. Or they can have the whole class, the whole year’s training on video or audio or whatever they choose. You could sell that for five g. That’s all Jay’s doing. He’s selling a seminar that’s already there, but he’s giving you the “home study version,” which is nothing but the audio and video tapes from the seminar. So, that’s how you leverage yourself.

Carlin: That’s awesome. Well, fantastic. What’s the next step?

Michael: If you’ll trust me to put together a package for you for $1000, I will do it. What I’ll do is I’ll give it a little thought. I’ll put together an email with a description of what you’d be getting. I’m thinking of combining several seminars, video taped information, and if you like Tony Robbins, I’ve got these two videos. It’s called “Optimization”. It’s when Jay Abraham was at Tony Robbins “Life Mastery Seminar” and he did this two and a half hour presentation on his life mastery things—on marketing. It’s a great primer. It’s a great beginner thing to see how Jay thinks, and you can see him talking. It’s just one of those presentations that he captured when he was just at his best. He was mobbed for hours after the presentation. I’ll put together all the Jay Abraham you need.

Carlin: Cool. And anybody else. I totally trust you. Send me an email. I’m ready whenever. I can give you—if you want to just, since I’ve got you on the phone now, if you just want to grab my American Express number …

Michael: Let’s do this. You have an AMEX?

Carlin: Yes, I’ve got an American Express.

Michael: Okay, go ahead.

I want to thank you for listening to www.hardtofindseminars.com . If you want to get in touch with any of the people we interview, please contact by email. You can emailor you can call 858-274-7851.