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My advice to you would be: get out of the hauling business and get into the marketing business. Once you find you understand marketing, you’re going to realize you may not want to screw around with this hauling business.

Carlton: Well, I’m making money, but not as much as I think I could.

Michael: Well what do you have? You’ve got a trash hauling business, correct?

Carlton: Right.

Michael: Okay, now what seems to be the problem?

Carlton: I’m doing okay. I’m doing okay.

Michael: What’s “Okay”?

Carlton: I’m doubling my profits each year.

Michael: How much did you make this year in net profit with your hauling business? Do you have one truck?

Carlton: Yeah, I rent my truck. In 2001, I made $7,500 part-time. That was not good, but…

Michael: No, that’s all right. You made $7,500, basically net profit, right?

Carlton: Yeah. That was 2001. In 2002, I doubled that to about $16,000.

Michael: Okay.

Carlton: And I’m on my way to doubling it again, which would be $32,000 or better.

Michael: All right, you’re renting a truck and you’re doing hauling?

Carlton: Yeah.

Michael: Okay.

Carlton: I’m trying to build this up to $75,000 to $100,000 a year. That would be considered decent in my book.

Michael: All right, so you need to double it a couple more times, right?

Carlton: Yeah.

Michael: What’s keeping you from doubling it? Since you’ve doubled it three years in a row, what’s getting in the way now?

Carlton: I’m trying to go after businesses, for one thing, and without spending a lot of money.

Michael: Have you been doubling the business for those last three years without going to businesses?

Carlton: Pretty much, yeah.

Michael: Why would you want to go off course?

Carlton: Well, businesses give me bigger jobs, repeat business, and they’re less likely to price shop me. Whereas the residential or smaller jobs, the lower paying jobs will. I’m trying to get leverage, Mike, in other words.

Michael: Okay, so you’re trying to get leverage, because if you’re going to double it, there’s only one Carlton Pruit, and only one truck and you’re time is limited, right?

Carlton: Right.

Michael: And as you grow your business, you have more demands on your time?

Carlton: Absolutely.

Michael: Okay.

Carlton: I’m not spending much in advertising. I’m advertising in the yellow pages, and I’m advertising on the internet. I also have a website.

Michael: Where are you getting most of your leads from?

Carlton: It’s almost 50-50.

Michael: Okay.

Carlton: I’ve been asking everybody, and it’s about either 40-60 or 50-50, right around there. And people find me on the internet using keywords like “trash hauling”, “garbage hauling”, or “rubbish hauling”. You know, different keywords. They can go to YellowPages.com , and then look under the appropriate headings in the yellow pages. I haven’t really done any direct mail, Mike, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Michael: Presently, where you’re at, how much more time do you have to put into doubling your business?

Carlton: I can put in a lot more time, because right now, at my current pace, I’m only putting in 10 or 15 hours a week.

Michael: And you’re bringing in $36,000 a year.

Carlton: Yeah, I’m making about $75 to $100 an hour.

Michael: Okay.

Carlton: That’s not bad.

Michael: That ain’t bad for 15 hours a week. Can you get more retail accounts by doing what you’ve been doing, by just stepping it up a little bit?

Carlton: Well, the funny thing is, I’m not getting that many businesses. For some reason, I get mostly residential.

Michael: Maybe that’s where the market is for hauling.

Carlton: I was thinking about maybe joining a local chamber and doing some networking there, or sending direct mail to some type of a niche market. I know there are businesses that need my service. Sometimes they get those big bins, and they load up the big 20 yard bins with their own labor, but I can go in there with my truck and load it up for them and do all the work, and be out of there. I think that’s a nice little service that I provide for them. It’s just a matter of communicating, but, you know…

Michael: Who are those people who have those bins? Who are those people that you would need to communicate with?

Carlton: Well, the businesses that I would like to get. I think the entertainment business is a good niche market with a name like “Action Easy Haul”.

Michael: What does the name of your business have to do with anything?

Carlton: Well, psychologically, a lot of people, like directors and writers and people in the entertainment and film business, have called me, I’ve noticed, over the last couple of years, and I think it’s because of the name “Action”. You know, “Lights, camera, action”?

Michael: Do you think that’s why they’re calling you to haul their stuff away?

Carlton: As opposed to the competition? I think so.

Michael: How do you know they’re not calling the competition?

Carlton: Well, because a lot of them say I was the first person they saw and they just called me.

Michael: Well, maybe they’re calling you because you’re the first person under “Action” in the yellow pages, not because of the name.

Carlton: That could be.

Michael: Everyone else is “A, B, C, D” and may have the name of their company after the “A’s” because they’re listed in alphabetical order.

Carlton: Well, I’m definitely up in the top five, I think. There are a few other businesses starting with “A’s”. That’s one of the reasons I changed my name from “Carlton’s Cleanup” to “Action Easy Haul”, because in the yellow pages, they list you alphabetically, and I wasn’t getting very much business when I was “Carlton’s Cleanup.”

Michael: Well, how much are you paying in the yellow pages for advertising?

Carlton: I’m paying about $150 a month. I just got another ad, so I’d say a little over $200.

Michael: Well, who’s your main customer? I mean, what is your best type of customer?

Carlton: My best type of customer would be, in age-wise demographics, probably middle to upper-middle income class. Maybe age 30 to 55.

Michael: Why don’t you give me some examples of some jobs? Someone calls you, and what kind of stuff are you hauling away? Tell me about your customers.

Carlton: Sure. Well, today a contractor called me and it was a repeat job. See, I don’t get a lot of repeat for some reason. I do good work, and I need to get referrals and I need to get repeat business. That would certainly help.

Michael: I can remember calling a hauler to take stuff away from my house, but it’s not like I have stuff to be hauled away all the time. It’s not like a monthly thing.

Carlton: Exactly. Exactly, that’s right.

Michael: So, your business is a one time hit or a two time hit as far as the hauling part.

Carlton: That’s true. That’s true, and the dollar amount can be really good, because I’m putting a minimum of $125 on a job now, because by the time I go out and get a truck and go out to the job, it’s not really worth the effort or time if I charge any lower.

Michael: Well, maybe you need to go out there on your hauling jobs, and while you’re out there, sell them two more services. What other services do you think you could offer your customers while you’re there?

Carlton: I do different types of jobs. I do demolition, but not everybody needs that. I do tree cutting, and I do weed cutting if they have like a lot of weeds or high grass. I don’t really mow lawns. You know what I’m saying, with a weed-whacker, using a weed-whacker.

Michael: Do you solicit that business to the people? If you see that one of your clients has trees that may need to be trimmed, will you mention that to them?

Carlton: Yeah, oh yeah. I don’t do it as a habit. I mean, I guess I need to hand them something like a flier with my services after each job. Do you think that would be a good idea?

Michael: No. I think you should just say, “Hey, I’m looking at these trees, and they’re about to fall on your house. I’m a tree cutter, too. Why don’t we get these things taken care of before I leave?” Why don’t you just tell them? People are silently begging to be led to what to do.

Carlton: That’s good, I like that. That’s true.

Michael: They’re crying out to know more about your business. Have you got time to read fliers? When someone hands you a flier, you just look at it, and guess where it goes when you turn your back: in the garbage.

Carlton: So I’ll just tell them right there, “I do tree cutting, I do this…”?

Michael: “By the way, Mrs. Jones, look at your tree. It’s going to fall on your house.”

Carlton: Okay.

Michael: “I hope you’ve got good insurance, or you need to take care of this right away. I’m a tree cutter. When can we schedule me to come and take this tree down, Mrs. Jones?” How about that?

Carlton: That’s good. So, that would be an add-on.

Michael: “Mrs. Jones, your yard looks like… When’s the last time you cut it? And you need an edger here. I mean, take some pride in your home. You know, I’ve got a Honda lawnmower right in the shop and a brand new edger, why don’t you let me come over here and take care of your yard, and get it looking like the greatest yard in the neighborhood?”

Carlton: Mmm hmm.

Michael: “I’ve noticed your windows, Mrs. Jones. They’re filthy. How can you see out of them? I’ve got a friend of mine who does window washing. And did you know my brother’s a roofer? Look at your roof. When’s the last time you replaced your roof? The shingles are falling off.”

You see, you’ve got all these customers that you’ve hauled for. You’ve already sold them on your service, and they’ve been happy with your service, right?

Carlton: Yes, yes.

Michael: You’re right there anyway, so why not sell them on different services. Now, if you don’t do the service yourself, you can sell them on all these things. You may not be a roofer, but maybe you could call a local roofer in your zip code. Do you think you can look in the phone book and find the phone number of a roofer in your area?

Carlton: Yeah, and then set up a joint venture with them?

Michael: Set up a joint venture. Say, “John, you’re a roofer, right? I’m a hauler. I’m out here all the time hauling stuff away from people’s homes, and their roofs are terrible. If I can sell you a roofing job or bring you a lead for someone who needs a roof, and you get the job, will you pay me some money?” What’s he going to say?

Carlton: Yeah, in fact, I’ve talked to some people like that. I’m just, you know, Jay Abraham, he does these joint ventures like this, but he takes a bigger percentage than what most customers are willing to give me. Is the 10% rule kind of a standard thing?

Michael: There’s no standard thing. The standard thing in your head means nothing. There’s no standard. Who set the standard?

Carlton: Well, Mike, like I’ve got a guy that will do my trees for me, the big jobs, because he’s insured, he’s got the expertise. I only do the small trees, okay?

Michael: All right.

Carlton: I don’t have the liability insurance or the expertise to do anything…

Michael: Okay, so you’ve got a guy who will pay you what, 10% on a job?

Carlton: That’s all he pays me, see?

Michael: All right, so find another tree guy.

Carlton: Right. Plus, the last couple leads I’ve given him, Mike, he hasn’t gotten the job, so he might be a little too high for my clientele, I don’t know.

Michael: Well, he’s not going to get every job, you know? But at least you’re doing the right thing. Maybe he’s not honest. Maybe he’s getting the job and not telling you. Whoever you do a joint venture with, you’ve got to trust them and have a good relationship. If this guy isn’t cutting it, find another. There are other tree trimmers.

Carlton: Okay, so call around and get some more. It’s always good to have a backup anyway, right?

Michael: It’s always good to have a backup.

Carlton: If my guy’s too busy, and this customer wants it done right away, it makes me look bad because they come back and say, “Carlton, I thought you said your tree guy was going to be out here.”

Michael: You should go out to every job and have a clipboard, and have ten different things you can sell that customer. You look at their roof, and you have an association with the roofer. You look at their car, and if their car is filthy, contact an auto detailer who could do a detail of their car. You look for a yard man who could manicure their yard. You look for a moving company. You may find out many of your customers may be moving soon, right?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: Okay, maybe you can arrange a mover who will do the moving for your customer. Whatever your customer needs, have someone, or a list, or you could provide them a sheet with your “Golden Rolodex” of honest contacts in your zip code.

Carlton: Excellent idea.

Michael: A list of movers, an auto detailer, maybe you could list a real estate agent. This person may be looking for a new home. Or someone who leases office space if a business is hauling stuff away and they’re moving to a new location. Maybe you could do that. Someone’s going to need to do their carpets. Maybe you can get something set up with a carpet cleaner; you refer all those services to this guy and set up relationships with these vendors.

Carlton: That’s great. Yeah, that’s good. I did a job about two weeks ago, and I was hauling off some unwanted items that this guy wanted out of his house, and he had the mover there at the same time. Low and behold, the mover turned to me and said, “Do you have some business cards? We have people all the time that need leftovers, cardboard boxes and junk removed, and we don’t do that. We just do moving.”

Michael: Fine.

Carlton: That was great, so I thought, “Man, if I had another two or three moving companies like that, imagine how busy I could be,” right?

Michael: Well, when we finish talking, why don’t you hang up the phone, open up your phone book, and start calling up movers? Say, “Hey, I’m a hauler, you’re a mover. I know that you’ve got customers who’ve got crap lying around that they need hauled away which you’re not going to handle. If you refer me any of this business, I’ll give you a piece of the action. And at the same time, when I’m doing hauling jobs before my customer moves, I’ll provide them a lead to you. Would you be willing to trade business cards or work a joint venture?”

Carlton: I’m sure they would. What would be a good percentage, Mike, off the top of your head?

Michael: You know, there’s no answer what would be a good percentage. Whatever’s fair, you know? There’s a lot of margin in moving, and there’s probably a lot of margin in hauling. You guys work it out. As long as you’re both comfortable and you feel good about the deal, that’s the most important thing.

Carlton: Yeah. Now, on the percentage, would you take that off of the gross, or off of the net?

Michael: Take it off of the gross. Always take it off of the gross, because the net can be manipulated after expenses.

Carlton: Yeah, they don’t know what the net is, but I can prove what the gross is.

Michael: You can prove what the gross is. Always negotiate the deal off of the gross.

Carlton: That’s good, I’m glad. That helps, thanks. One idea I came up with to hit some of the people that are hitting – well, basically what you’re saying. It’s the same thing. Hit the people that are hitting my market. In other words, let’s say a pest control person has to have a pile of brick or concrete or wood removed away from the site of the garage or the house so that he can properly do his job and inspection.

Michael: Right.

Carlton: Well, I do that, and rather than him waiting for the customer to get it done, I can just set something up with him to say, “Look, when you see that problem, tell the customer you can take care of it. It’ll be a little extra, but you’ve got somebody that will come and remove that so we can get to work on the house right away.” Then I come in. It doesn’t cost me anything other than a little time to contact these pest control people, right?

Michael: That’s absolutely correct. I mean, contact and talk to these business owners. You’re interested in making money and so are they, so you just show them how to do it. I guarantee you not one other person, in the life of their business, has called them to do a joint venture, because most people don’t know about it. They would love to hear from you.

Carlton: This guy was excited. He said, “Yeah, I needed you today.”

I said, “Well, now you have me.” But, of course, I didn’t follow up.

Michael: Did he call you?

Carlton: No, he hasn’t called me. He might’ve even lost my number or forgot about me by now, but I don’t know.

Michael: Well, what you can do is, you can get some stickers made up with a label company. You can go to Office Depot and get some stickers, a big red sticker with white writing, “Emergency Hauling.” You can mail it to all of these guys and say, “Here’s a sticker. If you need emergency hauling…” and you tell them to put this sticker on the dash of their car or on their refrigerator, and get extra stickiness so the stuff doesn’t just peel off in the sunlight. You can tell your label company you want a super durable sticker, almost like a permanent one, and that thing will be their forever. Then, whenever they have a hauling job, they’ll have your number in front of them.

Carlton: I like that idea, that’s great.

Michael: And it should be your cell phone number, so when they call you, they can reach you, because you and I both know that when someone calls a hauler, or a plumber, or the police, they need them there now. They don’t want to wait.

Carlton: Maybe put it in red for emergency?

Michael: Absolutely.

Carlton: Well, that’s my colors anyway, red and blue and white.

Michael: “Emergency hauling.”

Carlton: Yeah.

Michael: Then put your phone up there, and you could a get a list of all the contractors, because all the contractors are licensed, right?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: You could go to a list broker and buy a mailing list of all these contractors: small contractors, medium contractors, big contractors. You could probably find a list and get them for 10 cents a name. So, you can mail your sticker with nothing but a letter that says, “I’m Carlton Pruit, and I’m a hauler. Put my ‘Emergency Hauling’ sticker on your dash, on your refrigerator, on the back of your wallet, and whenever you need a hauling job done, call me first,” offer them a guarantee, and that’s all you have to say because there’s going to be some point that these contractors need a hauler, and they’ve experienced something that’s caused them to wait, or there’s a delay or some headache, and no other hauler has done that: mailed them a personal letter. You take their name, address and phone number, and you have it hand written on a #10 white envelope. You don’t even have your return address on there. Don’t even have the return address. Then, mail it to them, and those stickers will get stuck all over cars, all over wallets, all over refrigerators, and your phone will start ringing. Then you can get rid of your yellow page advertising.

Carlton: That’s great, yeah. Exactly. Just cut back on the advertising expenses if you can. I probably would get some referrals off of that too as the word gets around. You’re familiar with using publicity, right?

Michael: Sure.

Carlton: Free publicity: that’s another angle I was thinking of. If I create a buzz here in Hollywood, I’m in Hollywood, California, create some type of a buzz and get some ads going that would make the community aware of me. Because you know, Mike, you can have the greatest service in the world, but if nobody knows about you…

Michael: You know what though? I know you’re in Hollywood, but it’s not like people are thinking about hauling in the top of their heads. People have got so much stuff going on in their lives. People call a hauler when they need one.

Carlton: Right.

Michael: Bottom line: when I’ve got a pile of crap that needs to be taken out from my house after I’ve cleaned out my attic, I’m not sitting there thinking about where I’ve seen advertisements for a hauler. You know what I do? I go to the yellow pages or I go online and search the classifieds, or the newspaper under “Services Provided” under the San Diego Union” and I look at the haulers. And the first one I talk to is the one who’s going to get the job, as long as they’re reasonable, because I want that shit out of there and I want it out of there yesterday.

Carlton: That’s right.

Michael: So, forget this “image” stuff. Forget the colors of your sticker. Forget the name of your business. They just don’t care. They want this shit out of their house, out of their office, out of their building, and they don’t give a shit who does it. Just get it out of there and give me a fair price, and that is really what your business is about. Believe it or not, that’s what it’s about. You’re emotional about your business because it’s your baby. That’s what supports you and feeds you, you’ve invested time in it, that’s what you do, and anyone who has their own business is emotional about their business and treats it like a baby because it is, in a way, you know? But the bottom line is, the market wants their stuff hauled away, and they want it out of their fast. They want someone to do what they say they’re going to do. Show up on time, don’t leave a mess, charge a fair price, and they’ll call you every time as long as they know how to reach you. That’s your job: to get those stickers in front of them or to remind them. You don’t even remind them, because it’s such a one time or two time job. It’s not like an ongoing repeatable thing, unless there are some specific situations where it may be, like construction sites or something. But if you do some of these things, you won’t have time to be talking to me.

Carlton: Okay. That’s good, that’s good.

Michael: Would you agree with that, or are you not quite sure?

Carlton: No, I mean, that’s true. For the time I put into this business now, I’m doing okay. Now, obviously, the question is, do we want to be working 40 hours a week? If you’re working 40 hours a week, is it a business or is it a job? You know?

Michael: Well, that’s up to you, you know?

Carlton: You know what I’m saying? I’m thinking about how a lot of businesses are just a high paying job aren’t they, Mike?

Michael: Yes they are.

Carlton: I’ve heard this somewhere else before. I think it was from Jay and a few other people, Michael Gerber, and I go to thinking, “Well, how many hours a week do I want to work?” I’m trying to get the hourly rate up, and it’s not bad right here.

Michael: Well, is this your life ambition? Do you want to operate and run your hauling business?

Carlton: No, that’s the thing. I’m thinking about using this as an opportunity to springboard into other things in the future, but first I’ve got to make a success of this. Make some money and save up that money so I’ll have some capital to pursue different options.

Michael: Well, what kind of options are they, for example?

Carlton: It could be other businesses.

Michael: Anything in mind, specifically?

Carlton: I like copywriting, I like marketing, but unless I’m credible with my own business and do well, I can’t very well help other businesses, because…

Michael: Not true.

Carlton: No?

Michael: No. Not true, because if you can genuinely help another business, out of all the people I’ve talked to, no one has asked me what my experience has been. I mean, I do explain a bit on the website, but not one person has questioned my credibility or asked for referrals. If I offer information to help somebody, they’re going to eat it up. I mean, you haven’t asked me if I’m really a marketing consultant, have you?

Carlton: No, but you’re successful at your pen business.

Michael: Yeah.

Carlton: And you’ve got other things going. Plus, you’ve devoured this information and you’ve put it into practice, so that gives you the credibility.

Michael: It does give me some credibility, but you know what? Most people - 99% of people aren’t going to ask for your credibility if you’re there to help them in a genuine way. Now, first of all, especially in copywriting, you don’t need a dime to invest to be a copywriter. All you need is some time, and the tenacity, and the willingness to learn and study. So, what are you waiting for? You could start being a copywriter tonight without any money. So you don’t really need your hauling business to save up capital to be a copywriter. And the same goes for marketing. If you learn marketing the way I know it, and you’re willing to make the phone calls and talk to people, and say, “Hey, want to do a deal?” and you’re willing to learn, you’ll realize you don’t need a product, you don’t need a business, you don’t need a service, you don’t even need customers. All you need to do is have a good, solid knowledge of marketing to do business.

Carlton: Wait, wait, wait: you said you don’t need customers?

Michael: You don’t need customers of your own. If you knew marketing, you would find the largest… let’s see, you’re a hauling business. Let’s say, I’m just trying to think of an example of a lot of hauling jobs. You gave me an example of what, pest control?

Carlton: Yeah, termite pest control.

Michael: That’s right. Okay, yeah, what happens when a pest control guy tents a house? Is there a lot of leftover stuff to be taken away?

Carlton: Well, I’m just thinking that sometimes when they go out there to inspect, they find a garage full of junk that needs to be cleared out before they can spray around the side of the garage or inside.

Michael: All right, but the pest control guy isn’t going to do that.

Carlton: He’s not going to do any of that stuff, but he has to have it out of there. So, that’s where I could come in and remove the rubbish so he could do his job.

Michael: All right, do you know that that happens and occurs a lot?

Carlton: It does, I’m sure. I’ve talked to a couple of them.

Michael: All right, hypothetical: let’s say that 50% of all the pest control jobs absolutely have to clear stuff that has to be hauled away before they can do their job properly. So what I’m saying is, you need to find different situations, different businesses, that require some form of hauling where they could use your service.

Now, let’s say you didn’t have any customers, and let’s say you didn’t even have a hauling business, but you wanted to focus and market to this industry. You could bring the pest control and the hauler together and take a piece of the action without any capital. You call up the pest control people and you say, “My name’s Carlton Pruit, I have a business where I bring pest control people and haulers together to mutually generate more business for each other, and here’s the situation: You, in pest control, encounter many homes that need hauling to occur before you can get in there and do the job, because when you go to a house, and you need to spray a house and do the pest control things that you need to do, some hauling needs to occur so you can do your proper job. You’re not going to get that account until that hauling’s done. Is that correct, Mr. Pest Control Man?”

He says, “Yep, yep, that’s correct. We lose a lot of accounts because we can’t get the homeowner to haul the stuff away.”

Carlton: That’s right.

Michael: Then you say to the hauler that, “The pest control market is a great new source of hauling jobs. Well, we bring the two together.” You can just set up this relationship where, “I’ll bring you a hauler for your pest control business, if you pay us $15 for every job.”

Carlton: Now, would I do this outside my area so that they’re not affecting my territory?

Michael: Yeah, if you want to protect your territory, you could do it outside of the area. You could do it anywhere in the country, because all you need is a name, a phone number, and a person to call and make the offer to. If you made the offer ten times in a day and you got two of them, in 30 days, you’d have 60 matches of a pest control and a hauler. Sixty of them. Now, let’s say each one of those businesses is doing just ten jobs a week, that’s 600 jobs a week, and that’s just ten a week, okay? In 600 jobs a week, if you made $10 on each job, that’s $6,000 a week.

Carlton: Where did you get those figures again?

Michael: Okay, let’s say that you called San Diego, and you called ten pest control companies: mom and pop jobs, larger guys, and lets say you called ten of them, and you presented this deal and said, “I’m going to match you up with a hauler, you’re going to pay $10 on every job that gets done. When the hauler comes and hauls the stuff away so you can get the pest control job, you’re going to pay our matching service $10.

Carlton: A flat $10?

Michael: Yeah, it’s just a hypothetical. Ten bucks, okay? That’s peanuts. So you call ten of them, and let’s say only two of them go for the deal, right?

Carlton: Right, right.

Michael: So, you’ve got two deals going on. Now, in a month, and this is based on you calling ten people a day, after 30 days, you’re going to end up having 60 successful deals. Does that make sense?

Carlton: Yeah.

Michael: Thirty days, you end up calling ten each day, but you only get two, so 2x30=60. So you’ve got 60 of these guys saying, “Yes, let’s do it.” Now let’s say each one of these companies is doing at least ten jobs a week, does that sound reasonable?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: Ten jobs a week, times 60, is 600 jobs a week.

Carlton: Right.

Michael: Okay, and you’re making $10 on each job. That’s $6,000 a week.

Carlton: Whoa!

Michael: Now, multiply that by 52, and that’s over a quarter of a million dollars a year.

Carlton: Oh man, yeah.

Michael: That’s for making ten calls a day, but it’s doable. That’s based on you just closing two out of ten. And who says it has to be $10? If it was $20, it would be over a half a million a year. And did you have to own a pest control or hauling company?

Carlton: No, not at all. That’s a powerful idea, Mike. That’s super powerful. You just came up with that idea?

Michael: Yeah, I just came up with it.

Carlton: That’s good.

Michael: But what I’m saying is, we’re all so involved with our own businesses, and in love with our own business; in love with our company name and our sales, and what our business is called and the look of our website, when none of that really matters when it comes to marketing.

Carlton: Wow, thinking outside the box sometimes, right?

Michael: That’s correct.

Carlton: That is good.

Michael: And the reason is, because our ego gets in the way.

Carlton: Of course, to do this, I could either do it in my spare time or I could hire somebody to do that.

Michael: Absolutely.

Carlton: I guess I’d pay them a percentage, maybe.

Michael: You could go onto eLance.com right now, and you could sign up with these guys. They’re like eBay.com . You know what eBay.com is, but they provide services. You could say, “I’m a company out of Hollywood, California. I’m looking for some people to make telemarketing calls from their home. I will provide you with all of the phone numbers, I will provide you with a type-written script of exactly what to say, and you will be paid “X” dollars per hour plus a commission. If you’re interested in testing this out on 100 phone numbers, which I’ll provide,” you let them bid on that project, and you’ll get 10, 15, 20 bids on people who are willing to do that. I have secretaries and ladies doing type-setting for me out of their home. There’s one great lady, her name’s Joann, she does transcription for me. Her husband just had chemotherapy and she can’t work outside of the house because she’s home taking care of her husband, but she’s a great secretary. I have another lady who’s home with her kids who does work for me. There are hundreds and hundreds of these people who need ways to earn money from home, and this can all be done from home, and they would love to help you. All you’ve got to do is provide them the script and tell them what they need to do, and give them direction and let them do the work.

Carlton: I like that, because I was wondering where to get the telemarketers, Mike. I figured if I run an ad in the local paper it’s going to cost me money and…

Michael: Forget it. eLance.com has no up-front fee, you just sign up. That’s where you need to go, eLance.com .

Carlton: Wow, that’s great. That’s good. I didn’t know they had telemarketers.

Michael: They have all kinds of service providers.

Carlton: That’s great.

Of course, you use that one example with pest control. Imagine you’ve got these other things going, too: windows, car detailing, moving…

any geographical area, then do a mailing or get there phone numbers and call them.

So, it’s all up to you what market you want to approach, but my advice to you would be: get out of the hauling business and get into the marketing business. Once you realize you find you understand marketing, may not want to screw around with this hauling business.

Carlton: It is pretty back-breaking. I’m glad I haven’t had any serious injuries, you know? It does keep me in shape a little bit, but that’s why I didn’t want to do it 40 hours a week. I get too burned out.

Michael: It’s physical labor. Start using your mind, not your brawn. You could sell anything. Your biggest challenge is going to be deciding what you want to hustle. No matter what, if you’re going to make money, you’ve got to hustle something. You’ve either got to trade your time by doing labor, or if you want to be smart and market, you’re going to have to market something. So you may as well market something you’re interested in and that you like. Something that’s fun. What’s fun to you, anything specifically? Do you have any hobbies? Did you collect anything as a kid? Are you a sports fanatic or anything like that?

Carlton: Well, I played sports in high school.

Michael: So you’re not a fanatic?

Carlton: No, I’m not a fanatic about it right now. I never traded cards or anything like that.

Michael: Do you play any musical instruments or anything?

Carlton: I play the piano, and I play the guitar a little bit.

Michael: Do you have any favorite shows? Are you a “Star Trek” freak or anything?

Carlton: No, I don’t watch much TV.

Michael: Are you a beer drinker?

Carlton: No. No, I don’t drink alcohol.

Michael: Do you like whiskey?

Carlton: No.

Michael: Do you smoke cigarettes?

Carlton: No.

Michael: Cigars?

Carlton: Nope.

Michael: Okay, you’re boring. So why don’t you teach people how to be boring? What I’m saying is, find something that you can talk about that gets you excited. If it’s the hauling business and that’s the thing, that’s fine. That’s what you need to do. If it’s running a business, and you could be the best hauling business there is in the world, and if that’s what you want to be, there are thousands of haulers out there.

Carlton: Now, here’s an idea. I know a guy that took his business to a high level; much higher than I ever thought of. When I ran across his business idea, I thought, “Man!” It got me to get on the stick and start trying to market my business to a higher level myself. It challenged me is what it did. I was kind of ashamed, Mike, that I had been in business so long and had nothing to show for it, you know? I just wasn’t doing it. So anyway, I went to a marketing seminar, and a lady at this seminar suggested that I license. You know about licensing?

Michael: Yes.

Carlton: So she suggested that I license my name and a concept of helping other people in the hauling business.

Michael: This is what you do: Who was this guy who took his hauling business to new heights?

Carlton: His name is, Bryan Scudmore.

Michael: Do you know him personally?

Carlton: I know somebody that knows him personally.

Michael: Where is he?

Carlton: He’s in Canada.

Michael: He’s in Canada?

Carlton: He’s in Canada, but he’s taken it to a national level.

Michael: Okay, well he probably started with one truck and took it to a national level, right?

Carlton: Yeah, and it’s a two or three million dollar business, Mike. I mean, this is incredible.

Michael: Do you think that guy loves his business?

Carlton: Does he love it?

Michael: Yeah.

Carlton: Well, I’m sure he does.

Michael: I’m sure he does. What if you called him on the phone and said, “Bryan, can I make you famous in the hauling industry?”

He says, “What have you got?”

You tell him that you would like to create and license his strategy of how he took a one truck hauling business to a $3,000,000 a year hauling empire. You can do a series. You talk the same lingo. He started with one truck, and you’ve got one truck, so you guys can talk the same language, right? He’s in the hauling business, and you’ve encountered the same things. You need to start recording and just start asking him questions about how he got started. He’ll talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and you just sit there and listen and record the whole thing. Then, you can come up with all kinds of topics: how he handles his accounting, how he handles his cash customers, how he gets his business. You can find any marketing book, and you can go on Amazon.com and search “marketing books”, and find some marketing books that are related. Like, “How I built a pizza empire”. Look at the table of contents or the index, which, on Amazon.com , you can see those right on the website. There’s your outline. So, use that outline as an outline for an audio interview, and interview him, and you’ll end up with hours of audio interviews that you can put into a cassette case, right?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: And you get to use his name, and you get to promote him because he did it. He’s got the credibility. Then, you can take those audio interviews and have them transcribed. I can provide you with some of my secretarial transcribers, and they’ll transcribe them for like $15 an hour. They’ll transcribe an hours worth of audio for $15.

Carlton: That’s cheap.

Michael: Now, I had to do some shopping for that, but that’s what I’ve got right now. It ends up being about 25 pages, but let’s say you get six audio tapes. You’ll have 100 pages of transcripts, and there’s your notebook of materials. You can have some forms and some other stuff, and really create a kick-butt product.

Carlton: Yeah, now you’re talking about an information product.

Michael: Now you’re talking an information product, and you get the exclusive rights to promote him. If he’s not willing to do it, you go search in the yellow pages and find another successful hauler. You keep asking these business owners, who have made good success in the hauling business, for the rights to tell their story. They’ll say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” They want to be famous. They want their business to be heard about. They want other people to know how they became successful. Their wife won’t listen to them.

Carlton: So basically, once I get this information, I’m going to give them credit by putting their name into my publication?

Michael: No, no. You’re going to own the rights to do the marketing, and you’re going to create the product. They’re going to sign an agreement with you that you have total rights to do all the marketing of this information product. It’s like this: you’re going to approach them and say, “Sir, I want to write a book about how you grew your hauling business.” That’s all you have to say. They can understand how people get books written about them, right?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: A book publisher will usually just pay a small advance, which could be just $100. Then, you would pay them an advance against royalties. So, you’ll pay them $100 for the right to their story, and then you’ll pay them a royalty on gross sales. So, let’s say you sell $20,000 worth of these books, or these information products, that’s what we know they are, and then you’ll pay them a percentage off of the gross. They’ll be happier than pigs in shit to do it.

Carlton: So, pay $100 for the rights, up front?

Michael: Pay an up front advance of $100 or $200. Some book publishers don’t pay people anything of an advance; they only pay royalties on sales.

Carlton: I see what you’re saying. Basically, it’s like a good faith deposit. They’re going to give you a little bit of their time now…

Michael: You can hear more about it if you go to MichaelSenoff.com . Go to my audio clips, look for the one with Ted Nicholas, and he explains how this is done.

Carlton: I met him, Mike, for the first time. Did I tell you that I met him?

Michael: Yeah.

Carlton: Okay.

Michael: Do you see what I’m saying? You can approach the best hauling business in the country, get the rights to their story, and record their story. Let them blab into the phone and record it all, and then put it on tape. You can call me. I’ve got people I can lead you to who can digitize the product and put it onto audio tapes. Those are all just details, they’re no big deal. Then, you’ve got an information product that took you some effort, and some wheeling and dealing to get the deal done, but the actual product cost you peanuts: $5, $6, $7 for the product that you can sell for $299, $399, or $499.

Carlton: That’s great. Now, what about an attorney to write up the paperwork and make it all professional and legal?

Michael: You don’t need an attorney to do that.

Carlton: I don’t need any of that?

Michael: You can search on the internet for legal forms. I have a Jay Abraham contract guide that can help you out with that; it has skeletons you can use. I’ve got a buddy of mine coming out with his own contract guide where you take all the best licensing contracts and boil them down to simple English language, but they’re al legally binding, and you can get that contract guide from me at HardToFindSeminars.com . So, don’t worry about those details. The big detail you need to worry about is getting on the phone. If you’re not going to do it, or you don’t have the discipline to do it, then you hire someone to do it and tell them what to do.

Carlton: Okay.

Michael: Do you have $500 you can invest in someone to make phone calls for you?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: Then that will be the best $500 you ever spend, because you may not just do it yourself, and I’m like that too. There are things that I just won’t do, but I’ll pay somebody to do it for me.

Carlton: Especially when you know it’s a good return on your investment.

Michael: I’ll give you an example. I’ve got a pen business. You know, the Invisible Ink Pen business at IDPen.com ?

Carlton: Uh-huh.

Michael: Well, I also have another pen. I have over a thousand accounts with my Red Eye Pen business. It’s a pen that removes red eye from photographs. I’ve been so excited about marketing and doing my HardToFindSeminars.com site, and my MichaelSenoff.com site, and my HardToFindAds.com site, that I’ve let my Red Eye Pen business slack off. I haven’t been calling my customers, and there is money just waiting for me. I’ll I’ve got to do is call them, but I won’t do it.

Carlton: You should hire somebody to do it.

Michael: I just did. I hired someone on eLance.com . I’m going to send them my entire database, and I’m going to pay them $9 and hour to make the calls. I’m going to tell them exactly what to say with a script, plus I’m actually going to send them a recording of me making a few calls. Its brainless work and they’re going to hit on people who need more Red Eye Pens. He’s going to give me the phone number, and then I’ll call and do the order. That’s all because I won’t do it myself.

Carlton: They can work out of their home, right?

Michael: Yeah, they work out of there home. Not only that, if you want to make sure they’re working, go to BigZoo.com . BigZoo.com has long distance phone plans for 3 cents a minute. You can give them a calling card number, and you can track their calls online in real time to know if they’re actually doing the work.

Carlton: Oh, really? So, BigZoo.com will track their calls?

Michael: BigZoo.com . So, let’s say you get people to do calls for you, and you want to have control because you’re paying them by the hour. You’re going to set up an account with them. For $25, you can get a certain number of minutes of long distance calls, and you say, “Okay, here’s how it works: I’m going to provide you a script, I’m going to provide you all the telephone numbers, and here’s the calling card. You’re going to use this calling card number, and you’re going to make all of your calls from this account.” Then, you can go online to BigZoo.com and monitor whether they’re working or not, and see if they’re actually doing the work. You can see the proof that they’re making the calls right there, online.

Carlton: That’s excellent, because I always was a little leery about paying them by the hour. But then, a lot of people don’t want to work any other way.

Michael: That’s how you do it. You tell them up front that you’re going to be monitoring their calls in real time through the internet, and they can’t cheat you.

Carlton: That’s genius, I like that.

Michael: So, you can have control. Anyone working for you is an independent contractor, they’re not an employee, and it’s all done through eLance.com . It’s beautiful.

Carlton: And of course, if they’re not making enough calls…

Michael: You can them.

Carlton: …you just let them know, “Well I’m going to let you go. If you’re not producing, I have to let you go and get somebody else.”

Michael: Absolutely. If you’re sitting at a phone and have nothing else to do, how many calls can you make in an hour? You should be able to make 30 or 40 calls in an hour. Now, if you’ve got a more intricate deal, it may take longer, but you can figure it out.

Carlton: Right, exactly. That’s great. Well, you asked me a question and I didn’t have an answer at the time, but my passion is marketing information products. I’ve spent so much time over the last four years on the internet reading all these wonderful, powerful sales letters, and how all these internet marketing guru’s have made fortunes, but I never had a product or knew what to create. Now, maybe I can use some of your ideas for my hauling business and create a product, a tape, or a manual or something.

Michael: Of course.

Carlton: Do you suppose there are a lot of other haulers out there that could use my help and expertise?

Michael: Of course there are.

Carlton: Of course there are, but they never know where to get it.

Michael: They’re never going to know where to get it unless they know about you.

Carlton: It’s trial and error. They’re working the hard way and barely eeking out a living, probably.

Michael: How much would you pay this guy that’s turned his hauling business into a $3,000,000 business if he came over to your house and sat with you for an hour? What would that worth to you, if you had just started your hauling business? Without you making all the mistakes you’ve made over the years, what would you pay that guy, if you had the money? Would it be worth $500 an hour to listen to him spill his beans on exactly how he built his business, and to have the contracts he used?

Carlton: It probably would be. One guy called me, and I talked to him one time. He’s out of my area and I can’t remember his name, but he charged $1,000, and you had to provide your own transportation to fly out to his house and work with him for a couple of days, and just drive around with him.

Michael: For hauling?

Carlton: He would show you the ropes of how to make, he said, about $100 an hour.

Michael: What did he do, hauling?

Carlton: Yeah, hauling.

Michael: Okay.

Carlton: I wasn’t sure. I thought, “Well…” I didn’t have $1,000 at the time, but…

Michael: That’s another guy you can call. If the big guy in Canada doesn’t work out, you can call this guy and say, “Let me license your method on how to build a hauling business.” Then, work it out with him and do audio interviews with him over the phone. So, there are people who have already built business, and they’ll tell you how for virtually nothing. Now you have your product. You can do that. You can get that information. You can get that product. I’m getting an information product from you right now. What did it cost me? We’ve been talking now for 50 minutes. I’ve got 50 minutes of great marketing advice with a real world example, because you really are a hauler, and you really want marketing advice, right?

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: And have I given you some value?

Carlton: Yes. Once I have this tremendous, wonderful product that you suggested I create, how do I market it? I’m not going to want to market it to people in my area, but to people outside my geographical area. What’s the most cost-effective way, the fastest and easiest way, to market it to people in my business?

Michael: Well, there are a number of ways, and I’ll give you one right now. One way is, you can call a mailing list broker. Every single county has a list of fictitious business names. When you sign up, and you want to start a business, you probably had to go down to your county courthouse and register.

Carlton: Yes.

Michael: Okay, that is all public record, and there are brokers who have all those fictitious business names, and they’re separated into categories. You can get a list of haulers, and mail to that list. You can mail a postcard, “How I built my one truck hauling business into a $3,000,000 hauling empire. Call for this free report.” So, you can mail a postcard, or you can get the fax numbers of these people and fax them that offer very inexpensively, for a free one hour audio interview. Let’s say that you had a powerful audio interview with the guy who built the business, just like we’re doing right now, and you’re willing to send a free audio tape to that person. Say you sent that fax out to 1,000 haulers, and they want to know how to build their business into a hauling empire. Well, everyone who raises their hand, they call, they leave their name, address and shipping address on a 24 hour recorded message, and then you mail them the audio tape. Then you only deal with the people that are hot and bothered. If they’re not hot and bothered by the time they listen to that audio recording, then you don’t want them, but there is going to be a certain percentage of people who call you back. And, because your products going to sell anywhere from $299 to $599, there’s enough margin in it, because your product cost is only about $6 or $7, that you can spend a lot of money on the marketing. You know?

Carlton: If I’ve got 1,000 people I’m mailing to, it’s going to cost me, for the copy of the cassette, about a buck, right?

Michael: Well, it’s hard to say. You’re not going to mail out the cassette to all 1,000 people. You’re going to mail out a lead generating message, whether it’s a postcard that says, “How to build a hauling empire.”

Carlton: Then, the one’s who respond…

Michael: That’s who you mail out to.

Carlton: …they will buy the tape, right?

Michael: No, you send it to them free.

Carlton: I send it to them free?

Michael: Yes, because if they raise their hand, if they responded to your message that they want to learn about how to build their hauling business, you pay for it and send it to them free.

Carlton: Yes, I got you.

Michael: So, you only send it to the people who have raised their hand and said they’re interested.

Carlton: Okay.

Michael: If you send it out to the 1,000 people on the list, you’re wasting your time.

Carlton: You’re wasting money, too.

Michael: You’re wasting time and money.

Carlton: What about charging for postage and handling?

Michael: Forget it, forget it. You don’t charge them a thing. Don’t make it difficult for these people. They want to trust you, they need your guidance. They don’t want to pay for shipping.

Carlton: Okay, so if I have 1,000 people, would 2% be considered good?

Michael: There’s no rule. If you mail out to 1,000 people, you’ve got to test it. You may have 2% who respond. Let’s say 2% want to hear the audio tape out of 1,000.

Carlton: Okay.

Michael: So, that’s 20 people you mail out the audio tape to. So, let’s say it cost you $2 a piece, and it cost you, say, $100 to mail them out.

Carlton: Okay, $5; $5 times 20, yeah.

Michael: Okay, and out of those 20, let’s say you just close one; just one. Let’s say you profit $300 on a course. You still made money, you know? But, I think your numbers will be better than that, because you’re going to send out the audio tape, and it’s got to be hard-hitting, it’s got to be emotional, you’ve got to give away some real value, but I think if you interview a guy who took his business from one truck to $3,000,000, you’re going to get some value. If the guy lives and breathes hauling, he’s going to be drooling for more, and he will pipe up with the money for the rest of the course. There’s no doubt.

The next thing is, your course has to deliver, your product has to be good, and I’m sure it will be, if this guy is passionate about his business and he spills the beans on all his secrets, because he wants to be famous, and he wants to be recognized as the greatest hauler in the world.

Carlton: So, you’re suggesting a product price for a manual and maybe an additional tape or two of… What was the price that you mentioned?

Michael: It could be anywhere from $300 to $600. You could have three different packages. You can have a “Silver”, a “Gold”, and a “Platinum”.

Carlton: Yeah, exactly. I see what you’re saying. So, that way, based on what they can afford and what they’re willing to invest, you make it easy for them to buy, right?

Michael: Well, anyone who’s got a hauling business that’s doing half ways decent, and they’re out there working, they’ll bring in enough money to invest in this.

Carlton: Yes, that’s good. I like that. You could have something for $150, or $300, or the bonus at $600.

Michael: Right, but you want to sell a high priced product, because you need the money for the marketing. Don’t worry, people will pay for it. If these people are hungry for the information, they’ll pay. They’ll pay $1,000, if you give them what they want. You’ve got to point out what it’s costing them to not have this information. What are they spending on useless yellow page advertising? What are they spending on dropping fliers at houses? What are they spending on gas, driving all over town to people who cancel out? If they knew the secrets of how to really build a business, and the keys, the step by step plan that this guy used, that is a key to the bank in the hauling business. They’ll pay the money.

Carlton: How about, “How to start your hauling business without even having a truck”?

Michael: That’s fine, too.

Carlton: Some of them may have the objection of, “That sounds great, but I don’t even have the money to get the truck.” So, I answered that objection.

Michael: Answer every objection.

Carlton: Yeah, exactly. Put those bullet points in there, and just list all its benefits. That’s great.

Michael: If you do the audio recording with the guy, and he’s passionate, willing to talk, willing to spill the beans, and willing to share his story, he’ll write your sales letter for you. You won’t need to put bullets in there. It will all be on audio, and when it’s transcribed, that will be your sales letter. You’ll just have to move a few things around. He’ll do it all for you, if you show him you’re interested in his business and you want to make him famous. Give him a piece of the action; he’ll do all the work for you. That passion that comes out when he’s talking to you is what sells the people.

Carlton: Right.

Michael: That audio is a lot different than a sales letter. I truly believe that, with an audio recording, I can out-sell a written sales letter. I really believe that.

Carlton: It’s so convenient, because you just pop it into a cassette player.

Michael: It’s not only that it’s convenient. It’s the passion that comes across in the voice. It is easier to listen to, and it’s more passive. It’s the emotion that sells. The sound in his voice when he explains his first deal.

Carlton: If I send out a postcard to 1,000, just as an example…

Michael: “Amazing, free audio tape reveals how I went from a one truck hauling business to a $3,000,000 hauling empire. Call this toll-free 800 number to order your free audio tape. We’ll mail to you anywhere in the country, absolutely free.”

Carlton: There you go. You’re real quick.

Michael: “Limited supply.” The phone will ring; I’ve tested this type of thing. I’ve got a flier stashed away in a Word file. It was a famous headline, and I forgot what it was used to sell, but I sent it out to a list of automotive detailers. It’s a little bit similar to hauling, but they did detailing, and I swear to God, I think I pulled a 20% response on the lead-generating facts. I had so many people who wanted the free audio tape. I never followed through with the project, but I can provide that letter to you. It’s already written out and formatted.

Carlton: That’s great. Well, you can imagine, if you’re in the hauling business, and you get an offer to get a free tape, you’d have to be out of your mind not to want it.

Michael: That’s right. Now, on the 800 number, you could say, “If you just absolutely can’t wait for the free tape, and you have a computer, log on to this website and download the digital version of this audio tape right now.” Then, you can direct them to a website where they can hear the audio online, just like you can hear them at my HardToFindSeminars.com and MichaelSenoff.com websites.

Carlton: Right, but yet my local competitors wouldn’t have access to it unless I wanted them to.

Michael: Don’t worry about your local competitors. Quit worrying about your local competitors, because once you understand this marketing stuff, your local competitors will be eating your dust. They won’t know what hit them. You won’t even be in the same stratosphere as these guys. These guys will still be scraping around for beer money while you’re building a huge information products business. You’re not in the information products business, not the hauling business, and you do it without any physical labor.

Carlton: You’ve been very generous, and I appreciate your ideas. This has been excellent.

Michael: Well, you’re very welcome. I’ll have this audio recording up on my site for you to listen to, and for other people to benefit from it as well.

Carlton: That’s great, because I wasn’t able to write down every single word.

Michael: You’ll have every word. I’ll do the transcripts of it too, and it’ll cost me $15.

Carlton: Thank you, Mike.

Michael: Okay?

Carlton: I’ll pay you $15 for the transcript.

Michael: That’s a deal. Do this: send me an email, Carlton, and when it’s done, I’ll email you the link and let you know it’s up there.

Carlton: That’s great.

Michael: Okay?

Carlton: Thank you, Mike.

Michael: All right, Carlton.

Carlton: Have a good one.

Michael: Thank you again for listening; this is Michael Senoff with www.hardtofindseminars.com . If you want to get in touch with any of the people in the interviews, please email me .