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Michael: Are there a lot of people out there dancing for money? Like what you do?

Melvin: Yes, there’s a bunch of people.

Michael: Why don’t you do something like that? Do an information product.

Melvin: I’ve been thinking about it. I specialize in that. When you see my dancing, you’ll know what I’m talking about.

Michael: Well shit, man, that’s what you need to do.

Melvin: I just didn’t know how to. Now I’m thinking about it. I mean, because I am like . . .I mean I could do it in my sleep.

Michael: You love that stuff?

Melvin: Yes.

Michael: You know that’s an information product right there. You’re an expert, aren’t you?

Melvin: Yes I am.

[Music]

Michael: What did you think of the link I sent you, showing you the sales letter for a potential mortgage course that we were talking about.

Melvin: Yes, it looked pretty good. What, you tweak it a little bit?

Michael: Yes, you’re going to have to tweak it and rewrite it, but basically all the hard work is done. It’s done, it’s written. It’s a 200-page course, but you’re going to have to mold it for your course, but at least you have a blueprint or an outline to go by. Marketing is the same whether it’s mortgages, or paper cups, or scissors, it doesn’t matter. It’s all about getting new customers.

Melvin: My wife is out there in California.

Michael: Oh, she’s out here?

Melvin: Yes, she and my daughter. They’re going to be on American Junior.

Michael: What’s American Junior?

Melvin: Like American Idol.

Michael: Oh really. Is she going to be on?

Melvin: Yes, they’ll be on it on Wednesday.

Michael: Is it on TV?

Melvin: Yes.

Michael: What channel is it on?

Melvin: FOX.

Michael: It’s on FOX, this Wednesday. At what time?

Melvin: 8 o’clock.

Michael: This is your daughter who’s going to be doing it, or your wife?

Melvin: Well actually not. My nephew.

Michael: Your nephew.

Melvin: Well her nephew, really.

Michael: What is he? A singer?

Melvin: Singer.

Michael: What’s his name?

Melvin: Morgan Burke.

Michael: All right, I’ll check that out. Maybe he’ll be . . .

Melvin: Actually, I’m waiting on her. Once she gets back, I’m going to go ahead and get started. What all comes with that?

Michael: You get the sales letter you can mold; you get the whole entire course. It’s all on digital products. It’s all done in Microsoft Word. Remember it was originally done as a gym membership course. You’re going to get the entire course; you’re going to get the ads that came with it, all this promotional material already laid out. Full-page ads, post card ads, classified ads, so if you were a gym and you bought this course, you’d have all your sales material ready to sell the course. But the only thing is you just have to mold it from “how to get more members in a gym” to “how to get more members as a mortgage broker”. You do the re-writing, or pay somebody to do it.

Melvin: Can I do it as a . . . I’d have to get a website . . . I don’t have a website.

Michael: Yes, absolutely you can get a website. But you’ve got work to do before you get that. You’ve got to get the course specific for mortgage brokers. So you do have some work ahead of you, but you’ve got ten times less work than if you tried to do it yourself. Were you going to do the work, or are you going to have your wife do it, or did you have any idea? Do you have an employee who could do it for you?

Melvin: Well, I’ll ask my wife to do it.

Michael: I’m sure she can grasp the idea. We’re going to take this course for gym memberships, and we’re going to turn it and change it into a course for mortgage brokers. You can take that sales letter, that you can probably do in an hour and change that. Now, if you want, once you get the sales letter done, if you want to test it, I’ll post the sales letter up on my site for you. You’re more than welcome to do that. We can have all your information – that will kind of save you a little money. Then if you need help getting a site I can direct you to a guy who can help you out with that. That’s not a big deal.

Melvin: Hey, did you know anything about Brian Keith Voiles.

Michael: Sure do.

Melvin: Have you got any of his stuff?

Michael: I can get it. I don’t have any in stock. Actually he e-mailed me the other day. He has an incredible course on how to write copy.

Melvin: I was listening to Dan Kennedy and different things. I like copywriting. I think I can do it now. It’s changed my thinking.

Michael: Absolutely. He’s got a great course on copywriting. I can get that for you. I think it’s about $250, but it’s a great . .

Melvin: Wait until I get this started, then I want to . . .

Michael: Okay. Let me know. I have another great copywriting course. It’s a $5,000 protégé copywriting course put on by this guy named Carl Galetti.

Melvin: Oh, Galetti, yes, I know of him.

Michael: I’ve got his whole protégé copywriting course. I think he charges $7,000 to go to it. I’ve got it all on videotape.

Melvin: Wow, what are you selling it for?

Michael: Probably about $500. That is a serious one.

Melvin: Is it?

Michael: Oh, yes. It’s like 28 videotapes.

Melvin: Videotapes?

Michael: Yes, video; all on copywriting. Carl …

Melvin: I learn better with videotapes and tapes.

Michael: All on video. And this is the only time I’ve found this thing. I did a trade with a guy for it. I have that too.

Melvin: I think I should get this course first.

Michael: The mortgage course?

Melvin: Yes.

Michael: Yes, I think you should get a product together first because the sales letter can be modified. That’s already been written for you. Once you get this going, and you have some more time on your hands, then you can . . . I mean you should always be studying.

Melvin: Hey, I’ve been studying like crazy, man. I sleep with tapes. My friend gave me direct sales with Bill Myers. You know all those with Gary Halpert – the direct boot camp they did.

Michael: Yes, I know. I have it available too on my site. Bill Myers, he’s great.

Melvin: I went to boot camp last year.

Michael: You went to what boot camp?

Melvin: The Global Marketing Boot Camp.

Michael: Oh, with Ronald Graham?

Melvin: Yes.

Michael: Okay.

Melvin: I get to go free every time.

Michael: Good job.

Melvin: And I’ve been going.

Michael: Was that a good one—that boot camp?

Melvin: Yes, it was pretty good. That’s when I met Dan Kennedy and I talked with him for a while.

Michael: Did you? Nice guy?

Melvin: Fun to talk with him. He was talking about copywriting and all the stuff he did.

Michael: Dan Kennedy sells a copywriting course too.

Melvin: I’ve been reading and Brian had a good one. Have you heard of John Carlton?

Michael: Yes, John Carlton. Kick Ass Copywriting Secrets.

Melvin: Attitude with him.

Michael: His is good, too. Absolutely.

Melvin: Since I’ve been looking at your audio clips and stuff like that man, I’ve really got into marketing. I didn’t know marketing was so powerful like that.

Michael: Since you started listening to the audio clips?

Melvin: Yes, I’ve listened to all your audio clips.

Michael: All right. Thank you for that testimonial. I appreciate that. I checked that out – that’s great.

Melvin: I’ve listen to all of them.

Michael: Good. I mean, there’s so much of it, I forget how much is on there. Sometimes I’ll re-listen to one I did and it’s like brand new to me.

Melvin: I see you’ve changed it too, you know. I like the new one, too. I like the way you changed it up. I’ve got everybody in Chicago . . . I’ve been e-mailing people to your website.

Michael: Oh, well thank you very much.

Melvin: I think everybody should see it.

Melvin: I was in pre-paid legal and I got out of it because I was getting a lot of charge backs. So, all the people that were hooked up to it . . . I called a couple of them and told them to get on line if they wanted to learn how to market. Then I just send them to your website.

Michael: I appreciate that. Tell them I’ll get them a free CD. Absolutely. You know, if you want to distribute the CD, you’re welcome to.

Melvin: I can?

Michael: Yes, you can give it away. You can’t sell it, but you can give it away free. You just have to pay . . . the CD’s cost me about a buck apiece. So if you want 50 of them or 30 of them: let me know, and I’ll send you 30 and you can get them out. You can tell people this is a $397 gift. I’m going to stop giving the CD away for free very soon.

Melvin: Yes, you better start charging for that. That’s a lot of good information.

Michael: I know, but it generates leads, and it generates business. What I’ll probably be doing is I’ll give away like a mini-CD, maybe with just 15 recordings. You know what I’m saying. I’ll still give something away for free.

Melvin: I mean, you’ve got so much on one CD; you should break them up into volumes.

Michael: I know, I know. I will.

Melvin:  You know, stretch it a little bit.

Michael: I know. It all takes time buddy.

Melvin: Well, it’s a hell of a good CD.

Michael: Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I’m glad you liked it.

Melvin: I listened to everything on it. I like your boy, Hank. Reminds me of me.

Michael: Oh yes, Hank, with all the little ideas?

Melvin: Yes, he reminds me of me. I have studied for so long, I need to get up off my butt and take action.

Michael: That’s right. That’s exactly right. I’m the same way. Everyone falls into that. You can study, and study, and study but you’ve got to get off your ass and just do it. That’s where you’re going to learn most. You’re going to learn more by doing, rather than studying.

Melvin: You think about it. I’d do more stuff but I’m really … it’s time-consuming for me. I really don’t want to spend all my time. I just realized, you know . . .

Michael: Time is the most valuable thing you have.

Melvin: I know. I just want to do information. Everything is information when you look at it. At the church, people sell information.

Michael: That’s exactly right.

Melvin: Selling books and tapes. Everywhere you look. Now that I have a different side of marketing, I’ve seen a lot of different things. I think a little differently. I can be in a store and I’m looking at headlines. I look at magazines different now.

Michael: Yes, once you understand this stuff, everything becomes a product.

Melvin: My wife has no idea what I’m saying sometimes. What are you talking about?

Michael: Yes, you can’t talk about this stuff with many people, that’s the thing.

Melvin: They just don’t understand.

Michael: Exactly.

Melvin: I guess once I start doing something, and she sees, you know what I mean. I did explain to her the other day before she left and she told me when she gets back, we’ll talk about it. She’s not working now.

Michael: That sounds like a plan. You guys have to do it together. If she’s not willing to do it, just do it on your own.

Melvin: I was like Hank, too. I understand him totally. He’s been a stockbroker for a long time, but he turned 40, and his wife didn’t understand because he was used to all that money. I used to be a dancer, so I was in the same situation. I was making a lot of money dancing. I was break dancing, and all that. I used to dance with a lot of kids.

Michael: Like at bar mitzvahs and stuff like that.

Melvin: All that. Bar mitzvahs.

Michael: You did break dancing?

Melvin: Yes, break dancing, potlock, animation, miming.

Michael: Cool. How many years did you do that for?

Melvin: Started in ’79. Still do it now today.

Michael: You’re still doing it?

Melvin: Yes, I’m going to send you a tape.

Michael: Yes, send it. You have a videotape of you?

Melvin: Yes.

Michael: Good. Send it to me. I’d love it. Are there a lot of people out there dancing for money? Like what you did?

Melvin: Yes, there’s a bunch of people out there.

Michael: Then why don’t you do something like that? Do an information product …

Melvin: I’ve been thinking about it. I specialize in that. When you see my dancing, you’ll know what I’m talking about.

Michael: Well shit, man, that’s what you need to do.

Melvin: I just didn’t know how to. Now that I’m thinking about it, you know, because I am like … I could do it in my sleep.

Michael: Well that’s the shit you should be teaching. Do you love that stuff?

Melvin: Yes.

Michael: That’s the stuff. You know, that’s an information product right there. You’re an expert aren’t you?

Melvin: Yes, I am.

Michael: Send me the video. Let me take a look at it.

Melvin: I’m going to do that. I’m going to try to locate the one I have. I was on Phil Donahue and Chicago. I let Chicago get away from me. I had that tape. I’m going to dig up the Phil Donahue tape. I was on there with Harry Bellefonte and Curtis Lowe. Going back in the days.

Michael: How old are you now?

Melvin: I’m 37 now.

Michael: Oh, you’re my age. When’s your birthday?

Melvin: February 21 st.

Michael: I’m March 2nd. Am I 37 or 38? When were you born?

Melvin: I was in ’66.

Michael: I’m 38. I’m ‘65.

Melvin: Yes, I forget, too.

Michael: Oh yes, I forget – 38. That’s great. You’re a year younger than me.

Melvin: I went to a dance club the other day. I still make the crowd go crazy.

Michael: That sound’s like fun.

Melvin: I might actually do a video and send it to you.

Michael: I tell you, I’ve got an idea right now. That Brian Keith Voiles, in his copywriting course, he’s got samples of his letters, and you know Brian Keith Voiles used to do magic shows. He used to be a magician. He did magic for kids, for parties and stuff. Just like you would do your dancing thing. He’s got a sales letter in there on how to get gigs, like how to get bookings and stuff, that would be perfect for your dancing.

Melvin: I could go down to the Universal Studio around the corner and go put the moves on a stage, and some young guys were there and I just started dancing. They know I’m old school. After I started dancing I had like 50 people around me. Back in the days on Rush Street in Chicago I used to have a suitcase out there and I’d draw a crowd in one second.

Michael: You would draw a crowd in one second?

Melvin: One second. I’d have like 100 people around me.

Michael: You’ve got all this on video? How many videos do you have?

Melvin: The one I have now – I’ve got one I did on Donahugh, but it’s actually me. No special effects though, it’s just me. And I’ve got one I did at my kid’s talent show. I’ve got one I’m on the moon …

Michael: Like the moonwalk or what?

Melvin: No, I’m actually … the way the camera was, it’s got me on a moon.

Michael: Melvin, why don’t you get it out to me today? This is the stuff . . . you know, the mortgage business you’re in is a job. Why would you want to do an information product on the mortgage business?

Melvin: I really don’t. My past is a dancer.

Michael: Then that’s your answer right there. Forget that. I’m not even going to sell you the mortgage thing. But you could turn it into how to get more dancing gigs in a month than you get all year. There’s got to be thousands of entertainers who do bar mitzvahs, and bookings, and events and stuff with dancing, right? These people don’t know how to market either.

Melvin: That’s true.

Michael: That’s your passion. You’ve already got your videotape; you can add to it and do an information product on how to do the moves, the stuff that you’ve learned. That may be the way to go, because that’s what you love. That’s the thing. If you’re not into the mortgage thing, I wouldn’t advise doing it.

Melvin: I want to ask you; don’t you think Oprah has an archive.

Michael: Sure she does. Did you do something with Oprah?

Melvin: Yes, I was on her show too.

Michael: All right, what you can do is you can call their offices and tell them that you were on the show and they do have an archive and I’m sure they can direct you or pull that video out for you. Were you on there alone, or were you with other people?

Melvin: With my group.

Michael: Your group?

Melvin: Yes, I had a group then.

Michael: What year was that?

Melvin: This was in ’85.

Michael: Go to oprah.com and find out their administrative number and tell them you want to get your video. It’s there.

Melvin: I can do Phil Donahue like that, too?

Michael: Absolutely. There’s actually . . . the company they may send you to is called Burrell’s. You know how at the end of these shows they say if you want transcripts to the previous show call Burrell’s? Burrell’s is an archiving company that archives all these shows and they may have the video. You’ll probably have to pay for it, but it’s there. Absolutely, you should get that.

Melvin: I went to the Universal last week, and there were at least 9, 10 kids trying to potlock, and I just went out there and did a couple moves and had a crowd around me.

Michael: You could take all your video and put a video together and sell a “how to dance” video.

Melvin: Right, that’s what I’m thinking about.

Michael: If you could send a video of your moves, like you said it developed a crowd around you … for example, if you did it physically and you went out to a place and you got a crowd around you, and you had 20, 30 videos right there that show you how to do what you did, you’d sell them like crazy. You could go to a public place, let’s say you did your own video. You put all your compilations on all your shows and everything, and you did some instructions on the video. Maybe do a 2-hour video showing all your moves and then you did a just good enough video. You know how Bill Myers just did a guerilla video. It doesn’t have to be a great production; it can be done with a video camera. You’re wife is doing the videotaping, you’re just talking about your moves, all the different moves and how to do them, and kids, you’ve got to practice. This is what I did. I practiced hours every day. You keep doing it and you can do it, too. Just add some value. Tell them your knowledge, your wisdom. How you do it … your story, right? Then you go out and do a dance in the public, and you’ve got 50, 60 people around, you could sell them the videos right there. Let’s say if you were in a high traffic area, and you got 10 groups of people around you on a Saturday or a Sunday, and you move 10 videos every group, move 50 videos a day, at say $10 apiece, that’s a $500 day. Or $20 apiece.

Melvin: And there’s like thousands of people at the Universal. Universal Studio. I mean I do a couple moves, and I have a crowd around me. I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to send you a tape like that. Then you can see what I’m talking about.

Michael: Send it to me. If it looks good, and I’m interested in doing a project with you, I’ll make you an offer. Maybe we can do something together.

Melvin: Okay.

Michael: You never know.

Melvin: I’m sure you’re going to like it.

Michael: All right. Well send it to me. I’m really looking forward to it.

Melvin: Okay.

Michael: Send that to me, Melvin. I’m glad you called. You’ve got my address. Talk to you later.

I want to thank you for listening to www.hardtofindseminars.com . If you want to get in touch with any of the people we interview, please contact my email addressby e-mail. You can emailor you can call (858) 274-7851.