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Michael: Well, hopefully, if you get going in the business, that should be more than enough. Your kick-back is you’re going to get my undivided attention, because I’m going to want to give you my best answers. How about that?

Daniela: Fair enough.

Michael: All right, nice to meet you guys.

Alex: Pleasure.

Michael: So, it’s Daniela, and what’s your name?

Alex: Alex.

Michael: Alex. So are you husband and wife?

Daniela: No, we’re brother and sister.

Michael: Okay. You both currently run a cleaning business, right?

Daniela: Yes.

Michael: All right, that’s great. You’re working with your family business. Where are you in Canada?

Daniela: Just north of Toronto.

Michael: How did you find out about this site?

Alex: I was just doing some scanning and it came up on one of the searches that I was doing for business opportunities.

Michael: Okay.

Alex: It was quite interesting, so I started delving into it. I thought it might be a good opportunity so I shared it with my sister. I always cut my sister into opportunities like this.

Michael: Well, that’s good.

Alex: So it was quite an interesting site; it had a lot about, in a general in a sense, what the business was about.

Michael: Exactly, the website is designed to give you the most information possible so you can make a decent decision. Because we’re on the internet, even though you’re in Canada, I try and make it like you are coming to my house; seeing exactly what I’m doing and how I’m doing it. It saves me a lot of time, because if all your questions are answered, at least most of your questions are answered, up on the site. I can prove to you that it is what I say it is and I have a better chance of selling you the license to it.

Alex: Right.

Michael: There’s not a person who’s come into the business as a licensee who hasn’t had questions and called me, so that’s no problem. I’m used to it.

Alex: Well, we’re more concerned about how it is being promoted in Canada

Michael: Do you have any specific ideas that you know you can market these pens?

Alex: Not exactly. We’re thinking of what the e-mail you had sent us earlier in regards…

Daniela: The press release.

Alex: The press release.

Michael: Yes.

Daniela: We are thinking of using the police and just the security issues that people have and the fact that they can easily market these products. A person taking something wouldn’t know that it was marked, so in a sense, they’re winning somewhere.

Michael: Right, right.

Daniela: I have seen a similar product in a small shop, but I really haven’t investigated much to see how many are out there. This particular one isn’t the one that you’re carrying. It’s a different person. But they advertised it as an invisible ink pen that you could use to tattoo your body as well.

Michael: Okay.

Daniela: So I think they were just targeting it to a different market all together.

Michael: Yes, that’s probably right.

Daniela: And that’s fine, there’s no problem there. We were looking at the press release that you sent; looking at it thinking “Okay, this is an interesting way to go about promoting the business.” Like you say, you send them a free sample, and before you know it, you actually have orders coming in.

Michael: That’s correct.

Daniela: But I wanted to maybe look at it one step further. That’s why I sent you the e-mail saying “Have you actually tested this in Canada, and what kind of responses were you getting? Where did you test it?”

Michael: I didn’t test in Canada because I live here in the United States; but whether you’re in Canada or the United States, it doesn’t matter. People are people.

Alex: Absolutely.

Michael: I did test it in the United States and it works. As a matter of fact, that press release works like magic. The phone starts ringing. People are interested. That press release generated me an article in “Police Magazine” and they did a four-color picture of the pen with the UV light. That press release is kind of word for word – “Over 250 police chiefs from all over the country sent in for a free sample and more information.” You’re trying to identify people who have an interest. They wouldn’t have filled that form out or sent in a fax on their letterhead stating that they want a free sample if there wasn’t an interest.

So that’s the most important thing to do is, identify a hot prospect; and that’s someone who’s taken time to do that, who is hot. Now it’s your job, you’ve got the product, you’re going to know how to manufacture it, and you know what your cost is per unit. Now it’s your job to take care of the details between the time that fax comes in and to get them as a customer for your product. That’s how you make money.

Daniela: We’re looking at conversion and we’re looking at the possibilities of duties and other taxes and issues.

Michael: Well, you can figure an extra 50 cents to the dollar. It costs you about 25 cents to make a pen. In reality, your hard cost is really less than that; your hard cost is probably around 13-14 cents to make a pen. So you can figure, even with your duties bringing the pen parts into Canada, maybe a quarter a piece as your cost. And things sell for a little bit more in Canada too, so I think it should even out.

Actually, when we started with Liana, I shipped all her stuff to Canada, and I just put a very low value. You’re going to pay duties on the value of the item. The value isn’t that high. If I send you 5,000 pen parts, the cost on the pen parts is peanuts, so your value isn’t that high. It’s not like high retail costs where you’re going to be really hit up on the high fees. Does that make sense?

Daniela: Yes, absolutely.

Michael: The pen parts cost pennies a piece. It really shouldn’t affect you too bad. Getting the ink to you is not a problem. Everything can be shipped right into Canada, really, without a hitch.

Daniela: How long did Liana run with this?

Michael: She ran with it probably for a couple of months.

Daniela: Okay, so then she really got into her pregnancy and life just took a turn.

Michael: I think she had already had a couple of kids, but she came from a point where she was desperate. I worked with her a lot on the phone, and I think she was just broke and needed to make money. When you’re at that point where you need to make money, it doesn’t become fun and it becomes like a job. You could talk to her about her experience, but it didn’t work out for her.

Daniela: Were there any others that you have in Canada?

Michael: I don’t think so; I think she’s the only one in Canada. Honestly, I’d have to go to my book and look through all my licensees.

Daniela: I think there’s someone in British Columbia, but I forget the individual’s name.

Michael: I think that’s Liana.

Daniela: She could stay at home and do this.

Michael: Yeah, that’s what she did.

Daniela: Okay. So, you really just marketed or targeted the product more in the U.S., not really testing it much in Canadian markets then.

Michael: That is correct.

Daniela: All right. Now you were saying that you had 250 police chiefs that contacted you with regards to the free advertising, the press release. Of those, what turn around would you actually say that you had?

Michael: Of those 250, I made a good profit from it and I continue to make a good profit from it. Some of the stations will order hundreds of pens, and then there are reorders involved if you keep in touch. I have some police stations that have ordered 3 times since that offer from several years ago.

Daniela: Let’s look at it step by step and I can appreciate it better. I guess that most of this will be covered in the training material that will come with the license. We are going to send out a press release to a targeted market. We are then going to get response from some of those individuals. Do you connect with them before you send something out?

Michael: No, I don’t connect with them before I send something out. The press release goes out. They call in and leave their name, mailing address, and phone number on a 24 hour voice mail box. You take down those names and addresses, you put a sample pen and a letter in a little Jiffy envelope. You mail it to them and then you follow up.

Daniela: And all of this will be covered in the training material that comes with it?

Michael: In my course, I do not have this specifically written out – but it is exactly as I am explaining it. You’ve got the press release and you send it out. Now in the training, there is information about how to capture your customer’s names or interested parties on a 24 hour voice mail recorder. That is covered. What isn’t covered is this SPECIFIC marketing tactic. This is just one of many that you can do.

It is that simple: you send it out and the calls come in. You take their name and address, mail them a sample of the pen, and follow up. That’s it. Does that make sense?

Daniela: Yes.

Michael: It’s not hard. That’s how you do it

Daniela: Getting your foot in the door and doing the press release, and offering a free pen does just that.

Michael: That’s exactly it. Getting your foot in the door. The way you are able to do that is using the fax machine to leverage. It only costs 6 cents to send a fax. It is a low cost way to get contacts. You may send out 1000 faxes and only get 50 responses. The real work is in weeding out the 950 people who are not interested. You only want to deal with the 50 who are interested.

Daniela: Absolutely

Michael: Now, of those 50 there is going to be a level of interest between 1 and 10. Some will be 1’s, some will be 3’s, some will be 5’s, and some will want to order right away, before they get the pen and they want you to call them.

Daniela: Have you ever had to deal with anyone beyond that, where they have asked you to go in and do a demonstration?

Michael: No. Never. I do this entire business right from my chair, right from my office, right from my home. I have never, ever, met with anyone personally about selling pens.

Daniela: And you have been doing this for about 15 years?

Michael: No, I started in the pen business about 10 years ago.

Daniela: It wasn’t invisible ink though, the very first pen, was it?

Michael: No, the first one was a counterfeit money detector pen, and then I did…

Daniela: How long have you been doing the ID Pen?

Michael: I probably started the whole concept about 6 years ago. Over the last five years, I have been married and I have 2 children. So all my efforts weren’t concentrated on the ID pen for the last 5 years. I have other things going too.

Daniela: This is some is something that we were looking at because we had the fortitude to think. “Yes, this is something that has probably been targeted a lot in the US, but maybe not so much in Canada.” We understand that you had put yourself out on a limb by dealing with that other Canadian by doing a payment plan. Would you consider us testing it here on our part? Before we jumped in with both feet?

Michael: What aspect do you want to test? I don’t understand what you are asking.

Daniela: Can we basically take the press release and have a database of police chiefs.

Michael: Sure, if you want to do that…

Daniela: And see what kind of response we get.

Michael: Yes, that’s fine.

Daniela: And then go from there, really.

Michael: You can do that on your own. Sure.

Daniela: But I am basically asking your permission to use the press release.

Michael: Yes, you have my permission to use the press release. You can do that. No problem

Daniela: Okay. And then at that point, obviously, I am going to need samples to provide.

Michael: That is correct.

Daniela: We’ll have to discuss how we go about that part of it.

Michael: The whole program is one thing. If you like the response and you think that you are going to be able to make some money on it, then you can become a licensee.

Daniela: How quickly would we be able to do that? Let’s say I sent this out today and in the next 15 days…

Michael: I could have everything you need out tomorrow.

Daniela: Okay. When you offer something for free to someone, how quickly do you ship it out to them?

Michael: I get it out the same day the response comes in.

Daniela: Okay. So, in effect, we would already have to have some sample ready and as we are getting these responses, send them out. Michael, let’s get this rolling. We have gotten excellent response and this really hasn’t been targeted in Canada. It is a huge market and it is a win-win situation for both parties.

Michael: Every day that you wait, your response will reduce in a percentage. Think about it, you know when you want something, you want it now. If someone is going to make you wait 2 weeks before you get it, you are on to a whole different thing. Don’t you like getting stuff you buy through the mail instantly, as fast as possible? That is good service and that reflects on your company. There are so many flakes out there, it is almost a pleasure to get something on time and not have to wait 6 to 8 weeks for something.

Daniela: And that is what most of it is down here. You are absolutely right there. When you order something you are all excited and counting the days, but as every day goes by, it is almost a deflating feeling.

Michael: Yes, that is it exactly. Let’s say you get 50 leads, you can call the people back and you can say, “We received your voice message, we have got your package going out, and you can expect it in 3 days. It will be sent first class mail and is in a tan Jiffy envelope.” Leave them your name and number and tell them to call if they have any questions. Then they know where you are coming from. You have communicated with them. You never know, one of those people may call and not even want to wait to get the sample.

Daniela: When you send out those free samples, do you send out any of the literature? I know that in the one package, more on the retail level…

Michael: I have a letter that I send with the free sample. It has a bunch of testimonials and an introduction as to why the police would want to use it. You will be provided all of that. You will have all of these testimonials from other police stations and enforcement agencies who have used it and give good words about the product. I also have the pricing in there.

Daniela: There isn’t much to explain as to how to use it, but is there a little blurb about that part of it?

Michael: Yes, I think there is a blurb in there about what it is and how it’s used. It’s not really specific directions. Sometimes we’ll send out a 4 color insert card. It goes in this clamshell packaging and tells exactly how to use the product.

Daniela: With a free sample?

Michael: I think I have in the past and sometimes I don’t. They know how to use it because it is explained in the press release. It is a replacement for an engraver. Every one knows what it is when they order it. It is a pen that can mark their stuff without defacing it and it shows up under UV light. They know what it is.

Daniela: Speaking of the UV light… you have never sent one of those or do you say in your letter, “Hey, if you need a UV light, call me back.”

Michael: Most of these police stations have a UV light. In the offer, I offer free UV lights when they order. What I don’t talk about much is that UV lights are going to be a huge part of your business. The UV lights and the pens go hand in hand. There is very good money to be made on the UV lights. You can bring these things in pretty inexpensively. I can get them as low as $2.50 each for a good UV light that I sell all the time for $15 to $20 a piece. I have sold hundreds of lights as a result of these pens. It is another aspect of the business that I want you to consider. You are going to have my direct sources for the UV lights, and you’ll even have a source where you can bring them in directly from China if you had someone who had a very large order. UV lights are a great product. They are a wonderful little item.

Daniela: So let me get an understanding of this. I have seen it on the internet where you have the pen and the paper in front of you. It is invisible. So unless you have the light on, you don’t really see how well you are doing? Are you better off to go with a pen that vanishes? Where you can see it and then it disappears?

Michael: No. You can see it because it goes on wet.

Daniela: Oh, okay.

Michael: How long have you been in your cleaning business?

Daniela: About 4 years.

Michael: Are you residential?

Daniela: Yes, residential.

Michael: How many customers do you have?

Daniela: A couple hundred.

Michael: Who does all the cleaning?

Daniela: Staff.

Michael: You have staff doing it all?

Daniela: Absolutely. I didn’t buy a business to bust my butt.

Michael: Oh, you bought the business?

Daniela: Yes, it was established already.

Michael: What is the headache about the business?

Daniela: Employees.

Michael: How many do you have? 13?

Daniela: 15

Michael: Are they consuming all of your time?

Daniela: Everyone has issues, especially when they are women.

Michael: Are they paid by the hour?

Daniela: Absolutely.

Michael: Okay. I have a great interview on one of my sites with a guy out of Canada with a cleaning business. It’s really interesting. You guys would probably get a kick out of it. I will send you a link if you e-mail me.

You’re dealing with employees and that’s. It’s a real pain in the ass. I mean I don’t know how much money you’re making…

Daniela: Not enough to compensate for the headaches some days.

Michael: But every business has headaches. With invisible ink pens, you have to pack the stuff up, you have to ship them, and you have to make them. It’s not hard making them. I mean, we had an order for 2000 pens yesterday, and I had my nanny come in and I have two helpers. We got them made and they went out today. It’s no bid deal making them; it’s a breeze making them. And the margins are very nice – and it all comes to margins. But once the pens are made and you send them, they are gone. It’s done. There are no employees to deal with. You just collect the money. Many times you can get paid up front, many times you can get a P.O., but I have never had a problem getting paid by any of my police stations.

Most people pay their bills. That's a fact. Most people pay their bills. This is a business you can leverage. If you can get residual accounts that order big and they keep ordering from you, that is a residual for leverage. All you are dealing with is products, not people.

Daniela: That is something that is consumable. Not the kind you eat, but they wear out. It’s going to dry up. It’s going to get used up. People are going to need to repurchase it.

Michael: They do. It’s not a super consumable product like shampoo, but there are reorders, especially at the police station. If you get a customer who is distributing them, or giving them away, or using them as a promotion, that is a consumable product.

Daniela: And that is a whole new market right there. Just offering it to people to promote their business.

Michael: Yes, absolutely. Or if you are wholesaling to retailers and they resell it. Let’s say you go to pawn shops and gun shops, and you set them up with the counter top displays, and they are selling it to their customers. That is consumable, those are re-orders.

Daniela: And they have a better profit margin.

Michael: Yes, in some cases it is. Sometimes when you are selling to the police station, you can sell at a good retail price, because there is no one in between. It’s just you, the manufacturer, and the user. It’s a real business. The opportunity is there and what is nice is that you have control over your own product. They are a cinch to make and you are making it for pennies and you are selling it for dollars. That’s the bottom line. That’s what makes this thing so good. I mean, you can fit a TON of pens in your room. They don’t take much space. You don’t need to rent warehouse space. You make them as you need them. You have total control, as long as you have your pen parts.

Daniela: And you just change the exterior look, depending on if it’s red ink, or if it’s invisible, or if it is vanishing?

Michael: What I do is use a plug, the little plug that plugs up the hole at the end, to note what type of pen it is. I use different colors. My vanishing is purple. My red is red. I use all different colors. I switch back and forth. But I always use a black pen. It looks good. It doesn’t get dirty. I’ve tried white, but they get too dirty. If you get a smudge on it, you can see it. If you use black, it’s a good way to go on the pen barrel.

Daniela Michael, what is the tip like? Is it a broad tip or a fine point?

Michael: It’s a fine point, fiber tip. It’s a 2 mm point. The pen manufacturer, who you will have contact with, has different pens. They have the same pens with a bigger tip. So I sometimes have customers who want a bigger tip in there and I’ll custom make them a larger tip then. More like a magic marker tip.

Daniela Right, with like a beveled edge.

Michael: Yes, and you’ll have my supplier for the tips. You can go back and forth between the two. But I’ve stuck with the fine point tip. They only cost about 2 cents, 1.7 cents each. They are both easy to insert, but I try not to keep too many choices for people. With the invisible ink, you are writing your driver’s license number so you want to use a fine point. And I have a super, super fine point. It is a very expensive tip, and it is only 1mm. It’s super tiny, if you need to make real fine point marks, like on circuit boards or something, I have those available too. They fit in the same pen.

Daniela: Oh really?

Michael: Yeah.

Alex: The actual barrel will accommodate both tips?

Michael: Yes.

Daniela: But then obviously if it’s got a thicker tip, you’re looking a wider…

Michael: A wider hole, which is a different barrel. It’s a different model number of the pen barrel.

Daniela: What kind of minimums are there? If we’re going to be dealing…?

Michael: The minimum orders on the pen parts? I had someone who wanted 1000 pens. Actually I’m in the International Spy Museum in Washington D.C. It’s a huge Washington has all the museums, they opened up about a year ago, and they ordered a thousand invisible ink pens… and she just reordered. This time she wanted a blue pen, so I just called my pen manufacturer, and I just ordered 500 of the pen barrels and the pen caps. They will ship low quantities.

Daniela: Okay, I figured because you’re dealing with them all the time, obviously they’ll give you a better deal, because they know you’re a good client in the sense that you’re reordering. But for us just starting out, they’re not too sure. I wasn’t sure what kind of minimums they would offer.

Michael: They’ll ship just about any amount. They’re real easy to work with. There’s a lady, her name is Vinnie, and she’s cool. I can always help you If you’re ever stuck for supplies, I supply everything here, and I can ship you whatever you need too, without any minimums.

Alex: Your reprints and duplication rights, does it include anything to do with the actual ability to take this business and sell it as a business?

Michael: No, it really doesn’t. I’m not giving you the resale rights of the business opportunity. You can’t take and clone my website and sell the opportunity, I’m giving you duplication rights and reprint rights of the artwork and the material that come with the course. You can use anything from my site to promote the product, but no, it doesn’t give you the rights to resell. You’re your own pen manufacturer, okay, so you can resell an opportunity to people like I’m doing, but I’m not giving you the rights to use my sales copy and my website to do that. But you can it on your own.

Alex: Do you think that if I wanted to promote or enhance the business by creating other businesses like this, there is no right by yourself to be able to do that here in Canada?

Michael: No, what I’m saying is, I’m selling you an information product, you’re going to have the knowledge to be a pen manufacturer just like I am, and you can do anything you want with it. If you want to sell an opportunity with it, by all means, go for it. What I’m saying is I’m not giving you the rights to use my website or any of my material for you to resell a business opportunity. Okay?

Alex: If there was the possibility that I’d be interested in that also.

Michael: Okay, well, if you wanted to take my site and duplicate it and resell the business opportunity?

Alex: Well maybe change it a little bit. I would want to say it’s almost like having a map to franchise.

Michael: Yeah, I see what you’re saying, for Canada. I don’t offer any kind of rights. So I can’t do it, it wouldn’t be fair to give you rights to something because I wouldn’t be able to protect my other licensees when I’ve told them that there’s no rights. They can sell the pens anywhere. Now if we’re talking about giving you the rights to resell the opportunity just in Canada, we could talk about that.

Alex: Yeah, that’s what I was referring to.

Michael: Sure, yeah, we could talk. I’m open. We can certainly entertain that.

Alex: Does this program that you’re offering have the ability to have a website to be created from it?

Michael: Sure it does, absolutely. I could enhance the website and have ‘buy it now’ feature. I could have a shopping cart, where the people can order a sample right online. I just haven’t done it. I haven’t had the time. They could order a hundred pens at a time. They can pay now through PayPal using a credit card. Absolutely, I mean, anything can be bought and sold on the internet anywhere in the world. You just need a way to take the money, and an address of where to ship it to. Certainly, certainly, it can all be automated. Yes.

Alex: Does your site have that?

Michael: It doesn’t and it’s something I need to do because there are so many hours in the day. I only have, on my Monaco product site, an order form where they print it out, and fill it out and fax it in. But it’s on my list of something to do today, is to turn that into a way for my customers just to buy and pay through PayPal. Do you know what PayPal is?

Alex: Yes.

Michael: Yeah. And so I need to do it, and it’s not hard to do, I just need to do.

Daniela: Did you find that PayPal is the best company to go with?

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. It’s the biggest, it’s great. eBay owns them now. Yeah, it’s great, PayPal’s great. You can take a credit card from anyone in the country, and now soon to be, any of the major countries in the world.

Alex: Have you had any responses from international, obviously…?

Michael: I have. I haven’t sold an international distributorship, but I’ve talked to people in England, really all over the world. When you’re talking about so far away, it may become a little expensive with the shipping and stuff of the supplies. That may be why no one’s really come through, but I have a lot of people interested all over the world, I really do. Actually I just sent some information to a guy in Barbados. Because there are people everywhere. Everyone has stuff stolen. Crime isn’t going down. It’s a simple product. It’s a simple product that makes sense that you can demonstrate, which is real important, that you can show people and prove to people it works. It costs so little.

Alex: With this program that you are offering here on the internet, are you referring to this business not only inclusive of the invisible ink, but it also includes the redeye and the vanishing ink?

Michael: That’s correct. On the higher, more expensive licensing, I offer the rights to those products as well, if you wanted to that.

Alex: The platinum.

Michael: Yes, the platinum package.

Daniela: But in the gold you offered the mini, but you don’t offer it in the platinum.

Michael: You know what, that’s a mistake, it’s offered in the platinum too. Thank you for pointing that out, I just need to do that.

Alex: So there are four different product lines that you are carrying?

Michael: That’s correct, the invisible ink, the redeye, the vanishing ink, and the mini.

Daniela: You actually have some old sites still up on the internet. I don’t know if you are aware of this or not, but the money marker product is still out there.

Michael: Oh, the Money Detector. Very old site. That is from1996?

Daniela: I don’t know, it just says “old,” as part of the name of the website, so I wasn’t sure if that’s still something you’re still playing with. I know in one of your audios, you mentioned to someone that you had a bit of a challenge with it, so you kind of settled and you’re not really marketing it.

Michael: Right, right. Send me the link. I have all kinds of stuff on both my Monaco products website and the ID pen site, and there may be pages up there that I don’t even know about. If you get a chance will you send me the link to that page and let me look at that?

Daniela: No problem.

Michael: Thank you.

Alex: But is it something that you are still promoting or is it something that’s been…?

Michael: I don’t promote it, but I do sell the Money Detector. I don’t manufacture my own brand. I have to sell another company’s Money Detector which is readily available.

Alex: But it’s not something that you can come out and produce anymore?

Michael: Not here in the United States.

Daniela: Oh, so we have opportunities to market…

Alex: Market here in Canada.

Michael: Yes you do.

Daniela: The only drawback that I see to that money marking pen is that it leaves that mark on the bills.

Alex: Or does it vanish?

Michael: It vanishes. It oxidates. It mixes in with the oxygen and then eventually vanishes.

Daniela: And how long would it take for it to disappear?

Michael: It depends on the concentration, it may take a month or so, but it does oxidate off the bill.

Daniela: Now this has been tested on American currency?

Michael: This is for American currency. The company that you can buy these from wholesale has one, an International version that work. There’s also a company, there’s another counterfeit money detector manufacturer in Canada who sells, if you search International Money Detector, there’s a manufacturer there, who you can buy and resell those from.

Alex: I think Daniela is also looking at the new product. I don’t know what the name is, I think it the finger…

Michael: The fingerprint pen. You can check that out at www.fingerprintpen.com . It’s a great product, I just I haven’t done any promoting of it. I’ve put a lot of effort into the site. There’s a tremendous opportunity with that product, there really is. I did just sell 200 pens this Saturday to a girl who’s a notary. There are lots of notaries all over the country, and it’s a nice convenient way to take fingerprints without ink, and on any paper. Did you get the site yet?

Daniela: I actually have a printout of it in front of me.

Michael: Yeah, it’s a great little product.

Daniela: You don’t have a press release for it.

Michael: I do have press releases for that. If you go to my www.monacoproducts.com site, I’m not sure what link it is, but there is press release on that, and I’ve got several of them.

Daniela: For the fingerprint pen?

Michael: Yes, and it may even be on the fingerprint pen site. Look under news. I’m not positive, I have to look, but I did have two or three press releases written up for it.

Alex: But which program? I’m going to just go back to the website scenario, does not come with a website, am I correct?

Michael: I am not sure. That letter, do you know how long that letter is?

Daniela: Yes, very.

Michael: I have to go through it. I don’t, I think I did promise a website but you know what, I haven’t done it, so…

Daniela: We’d be interested in one of those.

Michael: You’d be interested in a website. Okay. We can work it out. I don’t know the specifics of it because I’ve never done it and I had it in there as a bonus to try and increase the value of it, but I can certainly help you with a website. I’m pretty good at that, and it wouldn’t take long. I can get you all the basic information on there.

Alex: All right.

Michael: Okay?

Alex: Sounds great.

you’re bringing up, you would offer a discount on purchase of these products.

Michael: Right, right. So if I continue to develop new killer pens, products that you can sell maybe write to your existing customers. Let’s say I want a license to it, I’ll offer a discount to my current licensees.

Daniela: Anything in the works?

Michael: Other than the fingerprint pen, no.

Alex: So also here with the program, you’re saying that you’ve got some sort of sales and marketing support?

Michael: Yes, what I’ve done is, I’ve gone through my files and I’ve made black and white copies of all my promotions that I’ve used. I went on my hard drive, all the letters I’ve sent out to promote the invisible ink pen, all the flyers I used back in ’96 to promote the Money Detectors, to promote the UV lights with pricing to promote my redeye pen. I’ve got copies of articles that were written on the ID pen, all that stuff is included. It’s like a collection of all my ads and sales letters, and promotions and one-page faxes and offers on all my pens that you can use to model from. You have the rights to use them, reword them, and copy them.

Alex: That’s great. That’s part of the complete manual I think you were talking about.

Michael: That comes separate because I don’t have holes in them in case you just want to just copy it. Just take it to a photocopy and copy it and make printouts of it.

Alex: Separate of what you just talked about?

Daniela: Separate from the 197 page manual.

Michael: Yeah, then you get, no, then there’s the entire course. The whole course called ID Pen University goes through all the killer marketing strategies. It’ll really give you an education on how to market the business, and not only the pen business, but your current business. It’s an excellent, excellent marketing course. So you get the 100, 200 and something page marketing course, and then you get all this artwork that I’m talking about.

Alex: Oh, okay, so that’s…

Michael: That’s all my letters and promotions and sales letters. But there’s also letters in the course too. You have more stuff to use than you can handle. I mean you’re only going to use a couple good things that work good, and what you choose. But there’s more than enough material to create a couple good offers and promotions.

Alex: Okay, so what this program, is this fingerprint pen, is part of that or not?

Michael: No, the fingerprint pen is not part of the invisible ink pen package.

Alex: So that’s a separate license that we’d have to purchase if we were interested.

Michael: If you were interested, yes.

Alex: What is that going for?

Michael: The way I’ve got it set up on my site, I’ve got it as a 497 dollar package, but it’s basically the resale rights. It sets you up as a distributor to buy the pens from me at a dollar per set. I’m not giving the manufacturing rights of the fingerprint pen, yet. But you can go, you can go to the site and check it out, it’s all there.

Alex: I would be interested in the full kit and caboodle, I wouldn’t want to just get the one or two pens.

Michael: Why don’t you just start with the silver package? Start with the 1,500 dollar one and if it goes well, you can always upgrade.

Alex: I know, we’re just thinking in the long term. I’m looking at the program that you’re offering now for ID pens, complete with licenses. That’s what I would be interested in with the fingerprint pen also.

Michael: Oh, okay. You’d like the rights to manufacture the fingerprint pen?

Alex: Right.

Michael: Okay, well I’ll tell you what, if you want to substitute the fingerprint for the one of the other pens in the platinum package, I’ll allow you to do that.

Alex: Okay.

Michael: So if you don’t want to the redeye pen, and you want to do the fingerprint pen, I’ll let you do that.

Alex: Okay, fair enough.

Michael: Okay.

Alex: I guess our main concern is being here that we are in Canada, not so much the marketing, because obviously it has not been marketed at all, or has been but way, way, ways back when. I mean, of course, there is a market for it. There shouldn’t be any problem with also promoting the product and obviously utilizing the concept and information that you are providing with the business, not taking hold of the market and flying with it. What about importing the goods on the dollar tariff because it’s probably not part of the NAFTA agreement, here in Canada?

Michael: I honestly don’t think you’re going to have a problem with anything. I just don’t.

Alex: But it has to cost more. Look at the cost factor.

Michael: Well, like I said, I mean, at worst case scenario, when I ship something to you, I put a value on it. You’re paying duties based on the value that I put on it. I can put the value of the actual costs of the pen parts. I mean, if I shipped you 10,000 pen parts, enough pen parts to make 10,000 pens it only, the hard cost on all that is 17 cents each. That’s $1,700 right?

Alex: Right.

Michael: So, what the worst that’s going to happen, you’re going to pay an extra, say 500 dollars. I don’t think it’s going to be any more than that. So then that brings your cost up to 23 or 24 cents a pen.

Alex: You also have a tax here called GST here in Canada which sucks the big one, and unfortunately any time you bring goods across the border, even if it’s part of the NAFTA agreement, there is that charge. It’s a seven percent straight across the board, doesn’t matter whether it’s low ball or high ball.

Michael: You guys are going to have to check in to that because I don’t know. You’re going to have to look into that. I can provide you with any information you need on what the costs are and, and I guess I can give you any information on what I’m shipping you and all that, but you’re going to have to check all that out?

Daniela: How do you ship it?

Michael: I ship UPS and I ship U.S. Mail, either way.

Alex: UPS is probably a good way, because I’ve got a couple of accounts.

Michael: Yeah, UPS is easy.

Alex: The number twelve point is your sales and marketing support via email, fax and phone for nine months.

Michael: That means you can pick up the phone and call me, just like you’re doing now.

Alex: Just chat with you and say, “Hey, Michael, we’ve got some concerns here,” or “Michael, here’s a couple orders. How do we deal with these kinds of scenarios?”

Michael: Absolutely.

Alex: “I’ve been up against this one, have you? What feedback do you have?”

Michael: Exactly. That’s what I’m here for and I’ll support you any way I can. You can send me an email, as long as we’re able to communicate, and I’ll commit to you, I communicate with anyone who calls me. I’ll keep an open like of communication with you and help you out the best I can.

Alex: Being the fact that the U.S Dollar exchange rate is extremely high at this point and time, are you as flexible on the site?

Michael: I’m really not that flexible on the price, if you want to make me an offer, I’m open. I’m not going to shut it out.

Alex: Okay, because I know the exchange rate is horrible with American and U.S., Canadian Dollar.

Daniela: And especially with the threat of the war at this point.

Michael: Yeah, it is, it’s scary. I want to watch the news and see what’s going on. Do you know anything going on today?

Daniela: Not as of yet.

Michael: It is, it’s really scary, huh?

Daniela: Big time. How it impacts everything.

Michael: What’s the Canadian view, do Canadians hate us?

Daniela: No, not at all.

Alex: No.

Michael: Are Canadians’ supporting Bush?

Daniela: I think a lot of them are. I think a lot of them are upset with their own government, and the fact that they’re not coming to the plate and stupid remarks that a lot of our politicians seem to be making. These are individuals that are suppose to be reflecting our views and our thoughts.

Michael: How old are you?

Daniela: In our thirties.

Michael: Thirty what?

Daniela: Myself, 38.

Alex: 41.

Michael: I’m 37. No I’m 38. I just turned 38. I’m loosing track.

Daniela: How long ago?

Michael: My birthday was March second.

Daniela: Oh, gosh, mine was the fifteenth.

Michael: Okay.

Daniela: Happy belated.

Michael: Yeah, you too.

Alex: The goods that are coming over that are ready-made - are these are products that we could just sell? Are they in a clam shell or are they in bulk?

Michael: Well, what I do, I give you a choice. Those clam shells cost just as much as the pen. They actually cost more. Those clam shells cost me 25 cents by the time I get them. Some people want them because they want to do retail. I’m going to give you my best advice, the clam shells are a pain in the ass because they’re big, they’re bulky, they come 235 per box, and they take up a lot of space. But they’re necessary if you want to market it like retail. If you want to sell them easily, it gives it a nice presentation. The little four-color card fits in there, and some people like them. But if you can design the business any way you can, and I would recommend you just focus on bulk. So, for instance, with the silver license, you get 600 pens and 300 clam shells. You can say, “I don’t want the clam shells, Mike, I’ll take 300 pens instead.” I’ll do that. I’ll trade them out. So, you would get 900 pens if you wanted to waive the clam shells because they basically cost the same. Does that make sense?

Alex: Wouldn’t you have thought of maybe retooling that and maybe making it a little bit more…?

Michael: I don’t make the tooling on that clam shell. I buy them. They’re already made up. I buy them from a company in Florida. That’s just one idea, one way. It’s an easy way to package it, because they come open, you put the pen in there, you put the card and you fold it, and it snaps together. You don’t need any machinery, so it’s really convenient. But you can make a different package. You can take a little plastic bag and do a cardboard over it for probably a nickel and have it look halfway decent.

Alex: But we also looking at selling it in stores, so you have to look… I mean, we’ve got some sources here, like some of the blind institute, or some of the handicap institutes which do a lot of these prepackaged goods.

Michael: Yes. You can have those people do that. And you can create your own packaging, with a little effort on your part. You can find a package for this pen up there so you are not shluffing this stuff all the way from the United States. It’s not necessary.

Alex: Because I’m thinking on the resale level, other than you putting out the presentation, do any of them actually go on pegboard?

Michael: The clam shell is designed to go on a pegboard.

Alex: That size of a clam shell is way too massive.

Michael: It is too big. It’s not standard for retail, you’re right.

Alex: So that’s why I was wondering if you have a modified version.

Michael: I haven’t. I’ve had people who’ve wanted me to do it, it just hasn’t been on the top of the list. I don’t want to invest the money in it or the time.

Alex: Oh, that’s fine, that’s fine. I just wanted to find out if you had or hadn’t.

Michael: But it’s doable. You could go in one of your bigger retailers or your art supply stores, try and find a local distributor. You can probably find someone who could do the packaging for you.

Alex: I just wanted to get some insight on that.

Michael: Yes, you’re right, it is too big. It’s good for a lot of my companies who sell specialty items like mace and pepper spray and they have websites and stuff like that. It’s good for that because they’re mail order.

Alex: Have you sold any amount, like on a residual basis, to an end consumer?

Michael: Myself?

Alex: Right.

Michael: Yes, I get calls every once in awhile. I’m mean I get calls all the time, people who want one pen here, one pen there, and I’ve got them priced at $4.50 up on my website, on my Monaco Products website, and so I do. I’d rather focus on the bigger stuff. It sounds kind of stupid, but I don’t even like taking those calls. They take up too much time. That’s why I was telling you, I need to automate the Monaco Products site where they can just click “Buy it Now,” the money comes into the account, I print it out, and I do an address label, and send it out. I don’t want to take the time talking on the phone for one pen or two pens.

Alex: How do you send that out? Do you send it as a pen, that’s it?

Michael: I take the one pen, I put it in a little Jiffy envelope, the six by nine jiffy envelope, and I take my little insert card and drop it in there, and I put their invoice in there.

Daniela: No shell?

Michael: No shell. No.

Alex: Makes sense.

Michael: Not mail order. You know, they want the pen. They don’t care about the package. They want what it does.

Alex: Exactly.

Daniela: Good point.

Alex: And the top that goes on it is pretty snug?

Michael: Very snug.

Alex: So it doesn’t pop off?

Michael: No.

Daniela: And the card is small enough that it fits in that jiffy envelope then, right?

Michael: Yes, it’s four by six.

Daniela: Four by six.

Michael: It’s a four by six card . The jiffy envelope’s eight by ten and get mine from Viking.

Alex: We have a few Staples here

Michael: Get them up on eBay, too.

Daniela: I was thinking a smaller size Jiffy. Smaller than that one.

Michael: No, you want a bigger one because you want to take your sales letter, your eight-and-a-half by eleven page, and fold it in half and put that in there with it.

Daniela: Okay, so, I guess at this point, if I wanted to take the press release, and run with it a bit, you’re more than happy with that. You’re comfortable with my doing that, correct?

Michael: Yeah, yes.

Daniela: And so then at that point, I’m obviously going to have to place an order.

Michael: Well, yes.

Daniela: For your product.

Michael: Well, I’ll tell you what, if you want to do that and you think need product right away, I’ll extend to you my pricing schedule which is on www.monacoproducts.com as someone who is buying ordering pens from me, who is not a licensee. And there’s a price break down there on the pens.

Daniela: I know it was $4.50 for one of those.

Michael: Yeah, I think, I’m going to have to go there. I don’t have the prices memorized, hold on and I’ll tell you.

Daniela: Hey, I’ve got it here, not to worry. Half a case…

Michael: What would I have those in?

Daniela: Half a case, 200 pens, $265.

Michael: And then what’s the next breakdown?

Daniela: One case, three case, five case…

Michael: How much is one case, $1.28?

Daniela: One case is $1.78 a pen, I guess. $712. Three cases, you’re showing $1.39.

Michael: I’ll tell you what, if you want to try it, I’ll do it at a $1.50 a piece. Say, if you want 10 or 100 or whatever, since you’re testing it out. You’re only going to need maybe twenty, thirty of them for your test.

Daniela: Yeah, I guess it depends on how big of a…

Michael: Just do it small. You’re not going to need that many.

Daniela: Because obviously it’s just getting your foot up, and I can appreciate what you’re saying. You just want to get an immediate response. Yes, it’s got a great market place, but let’s move forward, and get to business and run with it.

Michael: That’s right.

Daniela: All right, Alex, do you want to ask any questions? No. Okay, I think we pretty much covered a lot now that we had pending in our brain, and is there anything that we’ve missed that you wanted to fill us with?

Michael: No, the only thing, if you guys want to continue on, I need you to fill that application form out, and fax that to me. I think this is a really good recording. You gave me a lot of questions and I want to be able to use this recording, I want to have your blessings to use this recording as a way to promote or answer questions to the business in the future, and I’ll allow you the same thing. So, let’s say you wanted to sell the opportunity - I’ll help you use the recording to help promote your little business too as a way to answer lots of questions. Would that be all right with you?

Alex: Are you thinking in the long term of allowing the resale rights of the actual program?

Michael: You’re going to know how to manufacture pens. You’re not really going to need me, so I can’t stop you from creating your own business opportunity with it. If you want to set up distributors reselling this for you, you can do that, but I’m not going to grant you the copyright to my information on the website to resell the opportunity.

Alex: That’s fine.

Daniela: But you would provide us this recording?

Michael: Yes, I’ll let you use this recording as a way to answer questions, to save you time. We went over a lot of stuff. It’s all about freeing up your time. If you had a hundred people interested, they’re all going to ask the same questions. You can just let them listen to this recording on your website and you’re asking the same questions that a lot of people would ask, and it just saves you time. That’s what I’m saying.

Daniela: Okay, would we be able to get a transcript of it?

Michael: Yes, I can have this transcribed and I’ll provide you a transcript, sure.

Daniela: That’d be great. This has been great. Thank you very much for the additional information.

Michael: No problem, guys.

Daniela: We’ll brainstorm a little bit more and we’ll see which route and how big we want to go with this, and we’ll find you there on www. monaco.com

Michael: All right, great. It’s been nice talking to you. My recommendation is to start small. Don’t get the 5,000 dollar package, don’t get the 3500 dollar one. Just start small. You can always upgrade.

Daniela: Okay, so then, let me get a good understanding. I buy the $1500 package, I then decide I want to go to the $3,500 one. What am I really gaining other than more product, and is that product…?

Michael: It’s exactly the differences between what’s listed in the packages.

Daniela: So then, for an extra 900 pens, basically, because I’m looking at 600 versus 1500, we’re talking $2,000. So I’d probably just buy the product from you, and probably make them for less than that.

Michael: You’re probably right, and I’m not looking at all the different packages in front of me, but the middle package offers the ID mini pen that the first one doesn’t.

Daniela: Right, that’s the part we have to look at. Which rights are being offered, because we want the rights to the fingerprinting pen, then we basically have to go with two or three.

Michael: That’s true.

Daniela: Silver or platinum.

Michael: Well, you guys are intelligent. You guys talk to each other and decide whatever you want to do.

Daniela: That’s great.

Michael: Okay.

Daniela: Thank you very much for your time.

Michael: Okay, take care, have a good day. Bye.

Daniela: Bye.

Thank you again for listening; this is Michael Senoff with www.hardtofindseminars.com . If you want to get in touch with any of the people in the interviews, please email me .